Paradox: NO OPPRESSION IN AMERICA
Those of you who took Logic 1001 will recall the paradox known as "The Heap" which goes like this: 1. A single grain of sand does not constitute a heap of sand. 2. You can create a heap from a non-heap by adding a single grain of sand. 3. Therefore, there is *NO SUCH THING* as a heap of sand. You with me here? Okay, this is important, because the public actually does think like this: 1. Our current society in America is not oppressive. (generally accepted) 2. You cannot change a non-oppressive society into an oppressive society by removing one liberty from its citizens. (also generally accepted) 3. Therefore, it is not possible for America to become an oppressive society. Sleep well, Douglas B. Renner
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Well I'm just grumpy enough right now to tear this apart... :) On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Douglas B. Renner wrote:
Those of you who took Logic 1001 will recall the paradox known as "The Heap" which goes like this:
1. A single grain of sand does not constitute a heap of sand.
An debatable but valid assumption.
2. You can create a heap from a non-heap by adding a single grain of sand.
How is a non-heap defined? 1 grain? 0 grains? If (2) is to be true, it can't be 0, since you assumed (1), so a non-heap must be 1 grain.
3. Therefore, there is *NO SUCH THING* as a heap of sand.
Huh? How do you draw that conclusion? (1) and (2) are not contradictory in any way. You said 1 grain is not a heap, but >1 is. Fine. Valid way of defining a heap/non-heap of sand. Nothing to do with (3).
You with me here? Okay, this is important, because the public actually does think like this:
Very debatable. Very general.
1. Our current society in America is not oppressive. (generally accepted)
Very debatable.
2. You cannot change a non-oppressive society into an oppressive society by removing one liberty from its citizens. (also generally accepted)
Rubbish. If the government removes all liberties at once, that's oppressive, but if they do it one at a time, it's not?
3. Therefore, it is not possible for America to become an oppressive society.
More Rubbish. Not only are your assumptions flawed, but the heap argument and the oppression argument are entirely unrelated. Nothing personal, mind you. :) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jeremey Barrett Senior Software Engineer jeremey@veriweb.com VeriWeb Internet Corp. http://www.veriweb.com/ PGP Key fingerprint = 3B 42 1E D4 4B 17 0D 80 DC 59 6F 59 04 C3 83 64 PGP Public Key: http://www.veriweb.com/people/jeremey/pgpkey.html "less is more." -- Mies van de Rohe. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMkMLVC/fy+vkqMxNAQFHsgQAmK/nDEVv17ntZ2k172/S5ps4nYJeCFjM 4Ek8eOTG54pju5CYAZBTAYIOZNX4iDp4vK3Qyj3d1PAqpLCqQPJo3/Zr/dz21RH8 RkIP4IvEyFGNzpedh1yFe8wj8zGOPXk9OdblNujx8fFmThuk02zUJyUG+GDxBdDa zQGuNpTT7H8= =MFgt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Jeremey Barrett wrote:
Rubbish. If the government removes all liberties at once, that's
If I went over your head, I apologize! The point of a paradox such as this is to illustrate something which is OBVIOUSLY FALLACIOUS, so that we might learn from it. The intention is to make us *think*. -Doug
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Douglas B. Renner wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Jeremey Barrett wrote:
Rubbish. If the government removes all liberties at once, that's
If I went over your head, I apologize! The point of a paradox such as this is to illustrate something which is OBVIOUSLY FALLACIOUS, so that we might learn from it. The intention is to make us *think*.
I have seen many a post more foolish that was intended in all seriousness. My point is that neither your first nor second arguments are a paradox, nor do they relate to one another. I agree that many people may not see their freedoms being whittled away, simply because they are being whittled away, as opposed to eliminated all at once. If that is your point however, it was unclear. Apologies if you were upset by my response. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jeremey Barrett Senior Software Engineer jeremey@veriweb.com VeriWeb Internet Corp. http://www.veriweb.com/ PGP Key fingerprint = 3B 42 1E D4 4B 17 0D 80 DC 59 6F 59 04 C3 83 64 PGP Public Key: http://www.veriweb.com/people/jeremey/pgpkey.html "less is more." -- Mies van de Rohe. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMkMoUy/fy+vkqMxNAQFQIQP/UNUTD+MtbSpYZhLNNGcUXqzgRcA//8EO 7SJknZWlm2vHtd5siVOd847H9g+hJ5K9CdrzxgQgCUz4LT8FwZ5peLmM+gDvONGx XIZl3CSMlSv90msR50h8f1glMUiRJa2Q7vbIcj46GEwZx3U67bJe+MSdMcHumK8U /RPKQ96qkdQ= =u4aS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (3)
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Andrew Loewenstern -
Douglas B. Renner -
Jeremey Barrett