[NOISE] Re: Edited Edupage, 9 May 1996
Doug Hughes writes:
"Jean-Francois Avon" <jf_avon@citenet.net> wrote: [... regarding the unfortunate poor who Mr. Avon hates...]
You got to choose to do what is needed to live a better life. And most of them ain't doing what it takes.
Are you saying those poor people in rural West Virgina only live there because they are not trying hard enough to get out?
Yes he is. They are poor and it is all their fault. [flame-bait approaching...] There are two kinds of libertarians, those who hate the poor and those who don't. I always seem to meet the former, I am beginning to suspect the latter don't exist. [...]
Education is one thing (perhaps the only thing) that deserves to be subsidized in this country. I think that it should not be subsidized. If you feel like subsidising education, then by all means, do it. But why should you stick a gun in my back to do the same? What if I do not want to do the same as you?
Then you will be living in a country with lower education standards, increasing illiteracy, and a pretty pitiful base with a declining socio-economic structure. Are you arguing that people are not equal and those with more money should of necessity get better education?
Yes, he is. It is times like this that I must count myself among the pitchfork and torch wielding mob, if only because I have been cursed with a small amount of compassion for those who were not as lucky as I. BTW Mr. Avon, the reason we, the unruly mob of collectivists, socialists, and [insert libertarian/anarchist buzzword here] should stick a gun in your back and make you cough up money for education is because we can. If you don't want to do so, they why don't _you_ move? Are your feet cast in concrete blocks? Welcome to the real world. jim
On Wed, 15 May 1996, Jim McCoy wrote:
Are you saying those poor people in rural West Virgina only live there because they are not trying hard enough to get out?
Yes he is. They are poor and it is all their fault.
[flame-bait approaching...]
There are two kinds of libertarians, those who hate the poor and those who don't. I always seem to meet the former, I am beginning to suspect the latter don't exist.
Hi Mr. McCoy, My name is Petro, and I _am_ a poor libertarian (well, sort of a libertarian, I tend to think they are a little short sighted, and a little to authoritarian to me) Many of us ARE poor. We may not _like_ being poor, and some of us are working to get out of that situation, but most of us don't "hate" the poor. We (well, I) hate people with their hands out. This is everyone from poor people who _won't_ try to get out of their situation, to Multi-billion dollar corporations that recieve government grants for over seas advertising to old people who didn't plan for their "golden years" and expect us to provide the gold.
Yes, he is. It is times like this that I must count myself among the pitchfork and torch wielding mob, if only because I have been cursed with a small amount of compassion for those who were not as lucky as I.
Is it evil to ask people to work for their sustanence? Is it evil to ask someone to work to get out of the situation? Is it evil to demand a system based on reward for work, rather than a reward for being a squeaky wheel?
BTW Mr. Avon, the reason we, the unruly mob of collectivists, socialists, and [insert libertarian/anarchist buzzword here] should stick a gun in your back and make you cough up money for education is because we can. If you don't want to do so, they why don't _you_ move? Are your feet cast in concrete blocks?
Because you and your kind have been fscking up every other country on this planet that has acheived a decent technological base. Let US have this one. Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@crash.suba.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 15 May 1996, Jim McCoy wrote: :Yes, he is. It is times like this that I must count myself among the :pitchfork and torch wielding mob, if only because I have been cursed :with a small amount of compassion for those who were not as lucky as I. Compassion requires direction as well. It seems as if you're suggesting that your goals are laudable simply because they manifest compassion regardless of their effectiveness. The argument being made was that the state is extraordinarily inefficient at providing education (unless you consider west point education). Of course it's entirely possible that you don't believe the axiom "I am generous, I am morally superior, the rest of you are narcissist selfish capitalist pigs. I have feeling for the poor and I want to help them any way I can, even if those methods are ineffective". But it doesn't sound like it. Once again, the argument being made was regarding inefficiency, _not_ compassion or lack thereof. I can have lots of compassion and still believe that handing pink fluffy teddy bears out at street corners is going to do anyone any good. :BTW Mr. Avon, the reason we, the unruly mob of collectivists, socialists, and :[insert libertarian/anarchist buzzword here] should stick a gun in your :back and make you cough up money for education is because we can. If you :don't want to do so, they why don't _you_ move? Are your feet cast in :concrete blocks? That argument can be made on a local level. Not when there are federal mandates requiring public schools and their funding by local govts. Voting with you feet is a reasonable way to permit regional govts. to compete with each other (like in Europe, or between the states). People only make as major a decison as moving from a large country like the US if there is some extremely pressing need, genocide is a good candidate. hostmaster@trill-home.com * Trills 4 thrills * Blue-Ribbon * Lynx 2.5 "Well, if you can't believe what you read in a comic book, what *can* you believe?!" -- Bullwinkle J. Moose [Jay Ward] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMZunLhwDKqi8Iu65AQHg2AL+PJ86PA4GATCcx9BG2fyROSbp2nf8LqNg syYNPHPp+XnJRd6ldUy+A0dL84AtDfA0cKCiNBvSSpd/T05jKpXIuc8dlfiF6skT GAB7TunZI5tQJTlL4n05ooJGfvqM10k9 =fMFg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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