On the other hand, he obviously believes in the authority of the US government, as he has always supported it in arguments on the list, especially in counter arguments against TCM.

So, it appears that VZN is not *ready* to hold the government accountable, preferring not to protest when his own money is withheld for him, but hypocritically wondering when everyone will make this will happen.

I have (rarely) heard reasonable noises coming for VZN`s direction, so I read most of his posts, or at least allow them a cursory glace, however, it does not suprise me when he rants.

However, he's correct: similar to the argument I made about there being no difference between those who kill the good along with the bad & the ugly (that's from the title of a Clint Eastwood movie, for those who aren't familiar with that line), all those who argue for morality and libertarian ideals, but still "give in" when it comes to tax time, are all losers. <g>

I made a point a while ago on this list, which I felt strongly was correct at the time and I still feel as strongly now but this argument draws parallels which made me think again: I stated that anyone who, in a situation of military conscription, fought for a country or a cause they did not believe in, simply to avoid punishment for refusal to fight, was a coward. I still believe this, but really taxation is simply paying the government to be your hitman for you, your tax money pays the governments barbaric killing and warmongering, you cannot wash your hands of this simply by arguing that you did not choose for the money to pay for a war, you have to draw the conclusion that by funding the government and the state you fund killing and violence elsewhere in the world. However, I can also draw your attention to a post a while ago which made an analogy with an armed robbery. If someone pokes a gun in your face in the street do you give him your money? - Assume there is no possibility of escape or fighting back, and you are unarmed. You either hand over the money or you die... If you take the logical course of action and give him your money, have you made a moral decision that his decision to rob you was right? Of course not, you have simply covered your own ass in a situation where you have no option. It is a similar case with taxation, until enough people stop whinging and actually do something the state will tax as it sees fit, I`m not going to be the first to refuse payment on ethical grounds in peacetime, maybe I`m lacking in moral fibre, maybe I`m just a realist and think I can do more for the case of freedom outside of a 6'x9' cell. I certainly believe that I would refuse payment in wartime, not because I believe war is the only state activity I feel wrong funding, but because I would stand a better chance of getting away with not paying tax under these circumstances, and this would provide a good precedent for withholding tax payment after a war, by drawing parallels between war and other activities of the state. I wish all luck to those who do refuse to pay tax on moral and ethical grounds, they certainly have my admiration and I grant that they are probably of stronger stuff than I.

But this shameless capitulation is intellectualized away with the explanation that everyone is outnumbered by the men holding the legalized guns, who are in turn supported by all those true believers in The American Socialist Way of Life; that way being: the reception of benefits without any need to be consciously aware of, to identify, their actual source or the actual method of their obtainment.

I bear no particular grudge against certain groups of welfare recipients, those who have worked all their lives and paid taxes under the assumption that if they were eligible for welfare they would get it have commited no real crime in my view, save from the fact that they claim from the collective funds of the nation. Certainly they would have been totally blameless if they had invested in private assurance and insurance schemes whilst under employment. It is all very well complaining about the moral weaknesses of those who leech off of the stolen proceeds of state enforced taxation, but to really change anything the most effective route is to cut off welfare at source, that does not mean the state itself, that means you, the taxpayer. Of course most of the population are now brainwashed and do not see the evil perpetrated by a state that in some cases in the UK confiscates up to 60% of earnings at source. As I said though, I admit my own moral weakness here and agree I am hypocritical to some extent, so all criticism to this effect can go to /dev/null. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"