CIA & FBI, a marriage made in ___?
Does it concern anybody besides me that the CIA [with a bunch of underemployed manpower] is jumping into bed with the FBI [whose spokesman recently testified to Congress that they didn't have enough manpower to enforce the Crime Bill on us]? Does it make anybody nervous besides me that this is occurring at the same time that the 2ond and 4th amendments are being dispensed with? While the Clipper chip and digital telephony bill are being foisted on us? Is there a trend here? Ties to political aspects of crypto ought to be pretty damn obvious. Brad bdolan@well.sf.ca.us --------------------------------------------------------------------- William J. Clinton, on MTV: <> <> [...] Now, having said that, a lot of the Asian societies that <> are doing very well now have low crime rates and high economic growth <> rates, partly because they have very coherent societies with strong <> units where the unit is more important than the individual, whether <> it's the family unit or the work unit or the community unit. <> <> My own view is that you can go to the extreme in either <> direction. And when we got organized as a country and we wrote a <> fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a <> radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed <> that the Americans who had that freedom would used it responsibly. <> That is, when we set up this country, abuse of people by government <> was a big problem. So if you read the Constitution, it's rooted in <> the desire to limit the ability of government's ability to mess with <> you, because that was a huge problem. It can still be a huge <> problem. But it assumed that people would basically be raised in <> coherent families, in coherent communities, and they would work for <> the common good, as well as for the individual welfare. <> <> What's happened in America today is, too many people <> live in areas where there's no family structure, no community <> structure, and no work structure. And so there's a lot of <> irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there's too much personal <> freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit <> it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the <> public housing projects, about how we're going to have weapon sweeps <> and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Guess Who? Here is the theory: "It is thus necessary that the individual should finally come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of his nation; that the position of the indiviual ego is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole .. that above all the unity of a nation's spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the spirit and will of an individual..." "This state of mind, which subordinates the interests of the ego to the conservation of the community, is really the first premise for every truly human culture...The basic attitiude from which such activity arises, we call - to distinguish it from egoism and selfishness - idealism. By this we understand only the individual's capacity to make sacrifices for the community, for his fellow men." These statements were made in our century by the leader of a major Western nation. His countrymen regarded his viewpoint as uncontroversial. His political program implemented it faithfully. The statements were made by Adolf Hitler. He was explaining the moral philosopy of Nazism [National Socialism]. _The Ominous Parallels: The End of Freedom in America_, Leonard Peikoff, Stein & Day, NY, 1982. ISBN 0-8128-2850-X
Does it concern anybody besides me that the CIA [with a bunch of underemployed manpower] is jumping into bed with the FBI [whose spokesman recently testified to Congress that they didn't have enough manpower to enforce the Crime Bill on us]?
Yes it bothers me, but not for the reasons that you think. First, be careful about characterizing the change as the CIA jumping in bed with the FBI. What is really happening is that the FBI is taking over some of the counterintelligence functions of the CIA. I liken this battle to the desire of each branch of the armed services to have their own air wing. When you need close air support, it doesn't have the navy to work for first. In this case, the move is an attempt to head off legislation that would be much more restrictive on the CIA. Believe me, the CIA is more upset about it than you are. They are hardly "jumping into bed" with anyone. Bent over a chair is more like it. The FBI, understaffed in counterintelligence anyhow, also has a distinctly different philosophy and approach to CI. Law enforcement seeks to apply interdiction. Find the criminal, catch the criminal in the act, imprison the criminal. Historical example: The Walker Case. The FBI blew it in a big way when they snagged the documents at the drop spot. As a result, they never followed the handler connection back. The CIA prefers observation. Find the criminal, watch the criminal, walk the cat backwards (catch the handler, perhaps some others, depending on the degree of cell compartmentalization). Disinformation through the exposed spy is also a powerful tool. It not only disrupts intelligence activities, but erodes trust in legitimate information. In intelligence the feeling usually is that observation is best. The goal being to learn about the enemy. In law enforcement the feeling is that the crime must be stopped. The goal being to enforce "justice." Note that this represents a simplification of the bumps around the edges. The usurpation of CIA's CI functions bothers me because of the doctrinal distinction, not because it empowers the FBI.
Does it make anybody nervous besides me that this is occurring at the same time that the 2ond and 4th amendments are being dispensed with? While the Clipper chip and digital telephony bill are being foisted on us?
Yes it makes me nervous, but not for the reasons you think. See below.
Is there a trend here?
Yes. I'm not sure if my version is close to yours, however. The trend is to use the intelligence and federal law enforcement agencies for domestic politics. The NSA to promote the economic regulation of the crypto market. The FBI to further the executive's domestic survell. technology agenda, and put out the crime fire at home. The CIA to demonstrate, via a parade of horrors, how bad the problem is, and be the fall guy for the FBI. This is a perversion. I discussed this before on the list and in usenet. Using the NSA as a public relations tool to the degree you see today is an idea that only the intelli-clueless Clinton would think of. Intelligence and law enforcement are not the President's personal program advocates. It detracts from real business and it destroys the credibility of the agencies in the eyes of the public. This makes it hard for real business to be addressed. Ames was exposed for quite a long time. His public capture and arrest complete with media fanfare were as politically timed as the rest of the rhetoric out there. I've spoken in private with at least one list reader on this matter in the last week or so, it's really not a new concept. It does surprise me that it has become as political as it has. I have long maintained that these uses of intelligence betray a basic ignorance of intelligence application and intelligence agencies in general. I have the greatest respect for the office of the Presidency, however.
Ties to political aspects of crypto ought to be pretty damn obvious.
Yes, I'm tired of the issue being framed as a crime problem that needs political attention through law enforcement when in actuality it is a question of regulation and domestic policy.
Brad bdolan@well.sf.ca.us
--------------------------------------------------------------------- William J. Clinton, on MTV:
[X=Y Y=X] Other speaker: [X=Y Y=X]
The statements were made by Adolf Hitler. He was explaining the moral philosopy of Nazism [National Socialism].
_The Ominous Parallels: The End of Freedom in America_, Leonard Peikoff, Stein & Day, NY, 1982. ISBN 0-8128-2850-X
-uni- (Dark)
participants (2)
-
Black Unicorn -
Bradley W. Dolan