"I want each reader of these words to reflect on the phrase "implementing culture". If you do not realize the magnitude of this principle and have some respect for its enormity, I would sincerely suggest that your time would be better spent reading some political philosophy and some technological history and pondering over your desires, to make sure that you know them." Okay, Teach. :>) Thanks for the clarification, Eric. I remember some critical statements made about your attitude toward modifications to list and the suggestions which you apparently shot down. I remained silent but wondering. "Cypherpunks is where the politics meets the code. .... Policy separated from development lags the reality of deployment, and necessarily. " These are some things I have thought about, upon reading complaints against the tangential discussions which come up on the list: It is not unimportant to engage in these conversations as they develop, to allow for the associated efforts to achieve precision on attitudes/expectations which counter the rest of the intellectual atmosphere of acceptance, especially when one might be required to produce just cause why things should go in one direction (yours) rather than another (theirs); when you might have to answer to 'authorities' for non-complicity to collectivist programs. Some people do (and some should) struggle for better justification in their own mind, of their position relating to what they themselves do (writing & distributing code which permits alternatives to government-supplied arrangements), of what they advocate to others that they ought to do (positive or negative support for a method/plan of action), or would prevent (as in thwart the progress/implementation of Clipper). It is not unimportant to be clear about the propriety of the motives behind an argument, to be satisfied that one is correct - that it isn't merely 'whining' because one is not getting one's way, or because the government & its advisors are not sufficiently lenient in their outlook; that there is philosophical, logically consistency in the actions/solutions proposed. It is not unproductive to maintain a general awareness among all those who would deem to be of the same "attitudinal alignment". Else how could such a group survive as advocates of ideas promoting complete independence & total autonomy. (euphemism) I myself would welcome the existence of a more thorough elaboration on this subject, from yourself and the others who founded the list: an explanatory FAQ for reference, especially on the matter of "implementing culture", since this implies more than simply effects dealing with government. Blanc