Re: Cypherpunks Press release
I guess you all know how much I hate this "who will be our spokesman?" thread, but my opinion has been explicitly asked, so I will again comment. Hopefully, adding a few new points. At 6:55 AM 9/26/95, Craig Hubley wrote:
Damn fine idea, but how do a bunch of (p)anarchists choose a mouthpiece ? Should we assign someone to be 'our' lawyer ?
I'd volunteer to be 'spokespunk', I've certainly been interviewed for TV and print enough, and know how to handle and present myself to the press, but if this is considered an 'honor' rather than a 'pain in the ass and potential legal lightning rod' then I'd like to suggest someone with a longer pedigree who has been writing more code lately take it on. Tim ?
I've turned down several recent chances for interviews, for these reasons: 1. I feel the people doing the work should be interviewed, not just someone who has some visibility (whatever mine might be). If PGP is the issue, then they should talk to those working on PGP. If anonymous remailers are the issue, etc. If, by some chance, they are interested in things I have directly worked on or written extensively about, then maybe they should interview me. (Although for other reasons I refused to have my name attached to the cover story in "Information Week" about "Internet Theft," BlackNet, etc.) 2. Location, location, location! The media foci are Washington, New York, and San Francisco, at least for our area of interest. Occasional forays into Austin, Miami, L.A., etc. This is where the taped interviews are done. Several "crews" recently in SF wanted "sound bites" and "video bites" from people like me. I refused, pointing out the wastefullness of my time in driving 100 miles over mountain roads to SF, fighting parking problems, waiting around, and ending up with a 7.89 second clip of me saying something scripted. (In February I stupidly agreed to travel to LA for a filming of a BBC show about encryption. Left at dawn, drove to San Jose, flew to LA, took shuttle to Hollywood, waited around for several hours while crew finished taping Alvin and Heidi Toffler, set up my laptop, was interviewed by show's producer, agreed at her repeated prodding to say "I am a Cypherpunk." Got back to my house at midnight. Guess what they used? The stupid line "I am a Cypherpunk" and maybe about 20 seconds of other random comments. This is what we face, as other high tech shows I see have the same disjointed, out-of-context flavor.) The point? These "journalists" are tuned to looking for catchy quotes, all the more so on video than in print. Text journalists can handle complex themes much better than video reporters can, for many and oft-discussed reasons. (Even more disgusting than this was a more recent appearance of a BBC film crew at a Cypherpunks meeting. They wanted to "stage" the news, to have the meeting discuss a 2-year-old topic, because that's what their script called for. I got up and left, as did several other people. I haven't seen this BBC show, but I gather from a URL that this is the one that has "performance art" examples of crypto....) Any "spokesman" needs to be easily accessible when they need a "filler quote," or a "reaction quote." However: 3. THERE IS NO SPOKESMAN, THERE IS NO CENTRAL OFFICE, THERE IS NO BOARD OF DIRECTORS! With no organization, no office, no coordination, we cannot "feed the media machine" the way it expects to be fed. Nor can we "elect" such folks. I didn't help start this list--not that this gives me more moral sway--in order that J. Random Volunteer will start speaking for "our beliefs" or will start explaining "our goals" and "our plans." Far better that journalists like Steven Levy and John Markoff subsribe to the list, or to condensations by people like Eric Blossom, and then deal directly with the experts in some area. Thus, on the latest Netscape flaw, they would contact Ray Cromwell directly, not deal with the press releases written by J. Random Volunteer. Anarchy is part of our charm. More importantly, part of our theme. Face it, we don't have a press office, we don't have staffing, and--most importantly--there is no one out there who speaks for me. A spokesman for the Cypherpunks is an oxymoron. --Tim May ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
earlier I advocated a press release mechanism, and this is getting flamed to smithereens by the more libertarian/cryptoanarchists elements of the group, as I predicted (but geez, accusing me of *deliberately* trying to start a flamewar here really hurts my feelings! if I were really that mischievous, the meager return would be quite an insult to my expertise.. <g>). however this is entirely a matter of phasing of the question. I am *not* advocating that someone be elected the spokesman, that everyone agrees on what he says, that we all agree it is our "official representation" etc. and I thought I made this clear. (oops, I used that "we" word again, my humble apologies. just pretend that I'm talking to my tentacles if you object.) I do believe these are valuable attributes of groups and can help knit cohesion and help determine meaningful agenda (people here sometimes complain about the lack of focus or of conquest, and do you need any clue as to *why* there is a lack of this?) but I will not promote it where it is not relevant (or at leas, not welcomed). what I had in mind was a more FAQ-like cypherpunks document, with a list of who considers themself a cypherpunks contributer, or just someone who is willing to be a listed expert on a topic for media inquiries. all the time, someone just sits down and writes a FAQ for a newsgroup, yet there was no "official" appointment. if a FAQ is continually updated, it becomes very much like a press release. a question on the list might be, "what exactly did the cypherpunks discover about netscape? what is the seriousness of this flaw?" etc. in this way the questions become virtually identical to what the media would inquire. and in a sense every newsgroup's FAQ is almost like a "press release" for everyone in the newsgroup. but this also shows why a FAQ is almost invariably *extremely* time consuming and a herculean task to compile/update involving huge numbers of man-hours the refined, final product does not convey. I am advocating that individuals here come up with a FAQ. there are excellent web sites, but not a simple FAQ of this group. I also encourage competing FAQs at first. this happens all the time in newsgroups, and they eventually merge or cover different topics. the FAQ topic has been discussed here often, and everyone agrees it is a pretty good idea, and someone should "just do it" if they want to. I guess what I'm pointing out (beyond the usual noise on the subject) is that if anyone wants to have cypherpunk press releases, that energy is better channelled into a FAQ. it is a definite vacuum that would beneficially be filled, IMHO. (the TCM cyphernomicon, while admirable, is not really a FAQ imho..) I am *not* advocating that (or rather, I say that we *should not*) vote on a FAQ writer, decide what is the *official* FAQ for the group if there are competing ones, bar or *discourage* some people from creating a FAQ, etc. what I want to point out is that the FAQ is a model by which a very anarchic group of people can come to a definite document by which they communicate their "findings" and their concerns, and everything else that occupies their brains daily. this happens through the FAQ writer as a conduit. in a sense, the FAQ writer is the unappointed "spokesman" for the group. he wins approval through the gradual process of people using the document and not through any other means. another alternative that actually seems to be enjoying some success is for individual cypherpunks to issue press releases pertaining to their own specialty. i.e., "so-and-so at company X announced that they would be doing so-and-so in conjunction with the cypherpunks". again, how can anyone object to this if there really is no such thing as a "cypherpunk group"? their press release certainly can't be in conflict with something that doesn't exist. the sword cuts both ways, although the rabid elements on this list would rather not admit it: if no one is a cypherpunk, if there is no "official" goal or leader, if the term is not owned by anyone, then anyone can define "cypherpunk" to be anything they want, and do anything they like under that title. as soon as you say, "well, they're not a cypherpunk if so-and-so", well, your pretty much violating your own premise: that there is no such thing as a "cypherpunks group" or "official agenda". it seems to me that the opposition to group organizing etc. in this group is related to something else: the idea that the most valuable conquests come from individual tinkerers who are not part of any "group", who pursue their own ideas at the ignorance or hostility of the rest of "society" (another cypherpunk 4-letter word, of course). this is related to the idea of doing things in secret, too. "the most valuable projects are those that are kept secret, pursued by only one or a few, and then unleashed on the world all at once." these are interesting and enticing ideas, and I don't deny them to some degree (there are many famous historical examples, such as arguably Tesla, Ramanujan, Fermat, Archimedes, etc.), but it is also true, IMHO, that there are certain things that cannot be accomplished without a certain degree of organization and cooperation among many elements.. (well, again a cryptoanarchist heresy, but hell, I'm pretty good at those). but fortunately a FAQ does not require the latter, although it can benefit immensely from it (the sci.crypt FAQ has a group of collaborating writers, as to many other FAQs). --Vlad Nuri
I favor a FAQ, but only if each individual answer is attributed to a specific person and others can answer the same question with possibly a contradictory answer (but may not refer to the others' answer, that just makes it quoting and flaming). Perhaps organized as a hypertext. Everyone has an HTML browser now, right ? -- Craig Hubley Business that runs on knowledge Craig Hubley & Associates needs software that runs on the net mailto:craig@hubley.com 416-778-6136 416-778-1965 FAX Seventy Eaton Avenue, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4J 2Z5
"Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes:
earlier I advocated a press release mechanism, and this is getting flamed to smithereens by the more libertarian/cryptoanarchists elements of the group, as I predicted (but geez, accusing me of *deliberately* trying to start a flamewar here really hurts my feelings! if I were really that mischievous, the meager return would be quite an insult to my expertise.. <g>).
So you admit that you are, in fact, Detweiler. As if there was any doubt.
what I had in mind was a more FAQ-like cypherpunks document,
There is nothing wrong with Tim's document, which already exists. Perry
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello cypherpunks@toad.com and tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) wrote:
I guess you all know how much I hate this "who will be our spokesman?" ...
It seems to me that there are two viewpoints, * a spokesman would be useful, and * a spokesman cannot be appointed due to lack of org Which both seem to be true to me (they are *not* contradictory, only the consequences are). How about this idea: I remember once seeing some piece on some TV personality (sorry, don't remember who, long time ago) who was interviewed by fax. The jounalist sent questions to him, and some time later received answers. All that is needed then is someone with a fax machine to volunteer to receive the fax, type it in and summarise the response afterwards (noting points on which there was disagreement, and who disagreed in what way). ...
I've turned down several recent chances for interviews, for these reasons:
1. I feel the people doing the work should be interviewed, not just someone who has some visibility (whatever mine might be). If PGP is the issue, then ...
Except PGP skill doesn't equal PR skill, not to mention that there might be a geographical, time-zone or language barrier. Sometimes having a separate PR person is useful, even if it does tend to lead to the moronic statements salesdroids are infamous for. With care, this problem can be minimized. ...
2. Location, location, location! The media foci are Washington, New York, and San Francisco, at least for our area of interest. Occasional forays into Austin, Miami, L.A., etc. This is where the taped interviews are done. ...
Not all PGP is done in those areas. You might want to have a SpokesPunk near a focus to avoid having to get the people who actually do the work to one of the abovementioned foci. ...
The point? These "journalists" are tuned to looking for catchy quotes, all ...
It's in our interest to give them such catchy quotes, no? Unless it would destroy us, of course... ...
With no organization, no office, no coordination, we cannot "feed the media machine" the way it expects to be fed.
Only problem is, does anyone know of any other way to get our ideas to be accepted by Joe Sixpack? ...
Far better that journalists like Steven Levy and John Markoff subsribe to the list, or to condensations by people like Eric Blossom, and then deal ...
But then wouldn't that journalist act as a SpokesPunk? Would you support such a jounalist writing about Cypherpunks? What is the essential difference between a jounalist writing an article and a volunteer writing a press release?
Anarchy is part of our charm. More importantly, part of our theme. ...
A well-written press release could reflect that. For example, some points could be presented in two ways (perhaps even contradictory) with full attribution of who wrote which view. Those who oppose the whole idea could be noted in the press release :-) Unless they object to that in which case they wouldn't be. Yes, No, Maybe? Definite Maybe? Jiri - -- If you want an answer, please mail to <jirib@cs.monash.edu.au>. On sweeney, I may delete without reading! PGP 463A14D5 (but it's at home so it'll take a day or two) PGP EF0607F9 (but it's at uni so don't rely on it too much) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBMGzxJCxV6mvvBgf5AQF1owP9GwgbLK1/HCq+iRKqw42q5Y6Kzbtmyda1 YJwblubOWacbVER2aURAN3m51MCsTXreuLxSbcm9dgP4Zk2071yZFGa7D2OF7dtS pkfa5k1pn2v1EYplTvgJhAdTVJGqJ3sPc1VCIIWaRazeJjS0zA4d9rHmJWXb5DXp 6Hz8CbDw4UA= =th3o -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Jiri Baum wrote:
It seems to me that there are two viewpoints, * a spokesman would be useful, and * a spokesman cannot be appointed due to lack of org
Which both seem to be true to me . . .
Well, neither seems true to me. I don't see how, in the first analysis, a spokesman would be useful to ME. I am a Cypherpunk by virtue of being on the mailing list, but I doubt most, and certainly not all, list members would agree with everything I believe about privacy, encryption, freedom and the government. I know I don't believe in a lot of the stuff I read here. Why would any of us want a spokesman other than themselves? So I ask, "useful" to whom? Second, the reason a spokesman cannot be appointed is not due to lack of [an?] organization, but rather the lack of any unifying creedo or statement of belief. Had the list founders said, "Cypherpunks is a list for people who believe X, Y and Z. Sign-up if you are one of us." Then we might have an "official" viewpoint which a spokesperson could help articulate. They didn't, we don't and, frankly, that's the way I like it. You want to express your views to the press? Knock yourself out. You want to call yourself a "Cypherpunk"? No one will stop you. You want to characterize what other Cypherpunks say and believe? You might say something I disagree with, but again, no one will stop you. (Of course, they may counter your free speech with some free speech of their own, but that's the name of the game.) Yours in anarchy, S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Except PGP skill doesn't equal PR skill, not to mention that there might be a geographical, time-zone or language barrier.
Sometimes having a separate PR person is useful, even if it does tend to lead to the moronic statements salesdroids are infamous for. With care, this problem can be minimized.
In which case the person in question can hire their own PR person. If Community ConneXion had the resources, we would hire a PR person, because I would rather spend my time writing code and implementing anonymous systems than writing press releases and talking to reporters.
Only problem is, does anyone know of any other way to get our ideas to be accepted by Joe Sixpack?
I don't expect The Mythical Joe Sixpack to accept my views.
What is the essential difference between a jounalist writing an article and a volunteer writing a press release?
The difference between "speaking for" and "speaking about" -- sameer Voice: 510-601-9777 Community ConneXion FAX: 510-601-9734 An Internet Privacy Provider Dialin: 510-658-6376 http://www.c2.org (or login as "guest") sameer@c2.org
participants (7)
-
craig@passport.ca -
Jiri Baum -
Perry E. Metzger -
sameer -
Sandy Sandfort -
tcmay@got.net -
Vladimir Z. Nuri