-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970201:1452, Greg Broiles <gbroiles@netbox.com> said: +Since we've now got Jim Bell arguing that it's obvious that a free and +open society must tolerate anything which might be defamatory, and Jim +Choate arguing that it's obvious that a free and open society cannot +tolerate anything which might be defamatory, ... for what it is worth, anti-defamation, Germany's anti-Holocaust denial, and anti- just about anything legislation dealing with free speech is of and by its very nature an abridgement of your personal freedoms. If you deny one form of speech, it is easy to deny another, and then another... do you wish to march foolishly to Fahrenheit 451? Before the current generation of government vipers and revisionists remove or rewrite even more of the immortal words of history: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." --Abraham Lincoln let's look at one more famous speech on "nibbling" your rights: "Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. "Let us remember that 'if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom.' It is a very serious consideration that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event." --Samuel Adams ("patriot, statesman..."), speech, 1771 and: "The more difficult it is to interact with the government, the more the government wants gun control." --attila in other words, the more they deny our inaliable right to free speech, the more they need gun control before we rise against the usurpers of our rights. Now, if there ever was a liberal do-gooder, Eleanor certainly was: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." --Eleanor Roosevelt now, does she mean what she says literally? in other words, is she saying to say what you want, and she will not be harmed or "feel inferior" in this case? I can presume Eleanor could be offended, but is that sufficient to abridge your rights? Nietzsche expresses a defiant tone on first glance -no, the general interpretation is absolute freedom --speech included. "I understand by 'freedom of Spirit' something quite definite - the unconditional will to say No, where it is dangerous to say No." --Friedrich Nietzsche Is not the right to bear arms the same basic freedom as free speech, with one limitation: improper use carries criminal penalties --basically, because the act denies another his freedom. "The right of self-defense is the first law of nature ...and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." --St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries did not the Magna Carta guarantee the right of free speech? Of course, there was not full suffrage at that time, but the Magna Carta is the basis of our common law. Then, let's look at another concept of freedom and a "democracy" Just because a mob calls itself a government, doesn't make it so. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. People who claim that money doesn't matter, are usually living on someone else's money. Society is a mental construct, formed by those people who are too insecure to handle the concept of people as individuals. which gets down to just what the hell did my forefathers, and maybe yours, fight for in 1776 if it was not for freedom of speech and assembly, the right to bear arms, to be free from unreasonable search and seizure; and enjoy the protection of law? if we do not pick up that fight and stop corrupt governments from usurping the power of the people, we will lose all freedom. If we give in on _any_ of the first 10 amendments, our Bill of Rights, we are surrendering our deserved personal franchise to a usurping government. and it starts with society and government trying to tell us what we can freely say. I may not like what you have to say, or that you insult my sensibilities or my rectitude, but I will defend your right to my death so that you may do so. Therefore: "With heart and hand I pledge you while I load my gun again, you will never be forgotten or the enemy forgiven, my good comrade..." --Anton Szandor LaVay -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMvRHa704kQrCC2kFAQE9dgP8D+q2ZFytBzdgWDh+QdtunUa8nqhopHrS OVc5yWkG+UJzcVhtRFyu5O4nhSkgzhjbiGxYUWM1ZNZwaIDehFmieCv8GG/c+Cal 0BHWha5cHqL0pEiFs/NTWAVoVGfPZl2jcikViXMRAqt8mmXmbC3bxPjBtlfnTzmB yTZ51fvB3tU= =aTWw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----