Re: We removed radikal 154 from xs4all :(
At 6:31 PM 9/23/96, tank wrote:
Hi all,
We have temporary removed radikal 154 from xs4all.
We did this because the german ICTF and BAW continued to stop IP-traffic to and from xs4all. They not only blocked the web-server (with more than ...
Unfortunately, this means that Germany wins. This will embolden Germany and other nations to apply similar pressures to other ISPs. While I don't fully understand the economic pressures the IP-traffic blockage may have had on your site, it is sad that a user account has been removed because some foreign government doesn't like it. My recommendation is that you restore radikal 154's account immediately, and post a message to all customers and on various Net forums indicating you will not remove user accounts for materials which do not violate your own national laws. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Timothy C. May wrote:
At 6:31 PM 9/23/96, tank wrote:
Hi all,
We have temporary removed radikal 154 from xs4all.
Unfortunately, this means that Germany wins.
I partially agree, but then again the stuff is mirrored all over the place. While the Germans are off blocking other sites, xs4all can re-host the material as soon as the Bundesfeds unblock their addresses. Eventually, I suspect it'd get pretty embarrassing for the censors. ______c_________________________________________________________________ Mike M Nally * IBM % Tivoli * Austin TX * How quickly we forget that mailto:m5@tivoli.com mailto:m101@io.com * "deer processing" and "data http://www.io.com/~m101/ * processing" are different!
Unfortunately, this means that Germany wins.
How does this mean that Germany wins? "radikal 154" is still available all over the world, at almost 50 mirror sites, I beleive (including http://www.c2.net/radikal/), which are *not* blocked by Germany. -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 C2Net FAX: 510-986-8777 The Internet Privacy Provider http://www.c2.net/ sameer@c2.net
Unfortunately, this means that Germany wins.
How does this mean that Germany wins? "radikal 154" is still available all over the world, at almost 50 mirror sites, I beleive (including http://www.c2.net/radikal/), which are *not* blocked by Germany.
Indeed, that's the Xenu "Statue of Liberty" technique, used against the Cult of $pamology. Helena runs around stepping on ants [some of whom turn out to be fire-ants]; only to find 4x as many as before she started... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
I agree with Sameer -- I don't think Germany wins. The information is still online. A quick Altavista search will take you to it. The mirror sites' continued existence forces Gemany's hand; now they'll have to try and block the rest of the sites. -Declan On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 sameer@c2.net wrote:
Unfortunately, this means that Germany wins.
How does this mean that Germany wins? "radikal 154" is still available all over the world, at almost 50 mirror sites, I beleive (including http://www.c2.net/radikal/), which are *not* blocked by Germany.
-- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 C2Net FAX: 510-986-8777 The Internet Privacy Provider http://www.c2.net/ sameer@c2.net
// declan@eff.org // I do not represent the EFF // declan@well.com //
On Mon, 23 Sep 1996 sameer@c2.net wrote:
How does this mean that Germany wins? "radikal 154" is still available all over the world, at almost 50 mirror sites, I beleive (including http://www.c2.net/radikal/), which are *not* blocked by Germany. ^^^^^^^^^ ICTF members blocked the site. (?) (Non-members didn't block it.)
They brought one server down, which they didn't like. So 'they' think, they won. That's the only important thing. Hmm. Did they stop blocking the ip ? I have access. -stephan
We have temporary removed radikal 154 from xs4all.
We did this because the german ICTF and BAW continued to stop IP-traffic to and from xs4all. They not only blocked the web-server (with more than ... Unfortunately, this means that Germany wins.
Nope, hang on .....
This will embolden Germany and other nations to apply similar pressures to other ISPs.
While I don't fully understand the economic pressures the IP-traffic blockage may have had on your site, it is sad that a user account has been removed because some foreign government doesn't like it.
xs4all didn't remove our account. It's still alive and kickin'. We removed issue 154 _temporary_ so we force the ictf and BAW to block all 48 sites or to stop censoring xs4all. The situation now was that xs4all had to suffer for having been the first ISP where the radikal was hosted. We pointed the BAW and the ICTF to all the mirrors and said to them that their decicion to block xs4all was not enough to block radikal 154 from german netizens and that censorship will lead to the opposite. They won't listen and tried to let xs4all pay for not removing radikal 154. XS4ALL lost some customers due the blockade. We (SPG) were the ones who have put the radikal online. We are glad to have xs4all as isp. They didn't force us to remove the radikal 154. We did it, and we do it temporary. The issue 154 will be put online as soon as we think the situation is there. henk (SPG)
participants (7)
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David Lesher -
Declan McCullagh -
Mike McNally -
sameer＠c2.net -
Stephan Schmidt -
tank -
tcmay＠got.net