LET'S MEET DIMITRI
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Bay Area Cypherpunks, I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting. I certainly would like to meet a real cryptographer, and I'm sure many of you would too. We should throw in a hotel room and local transportation as well. I want Dimitri to be our featured speaker--his choice of topic, of course. I am ABSOLUTELY serious in this offer, but I will need donations from other Cypherpunks. If I get sufficient pledges to cover Dimitri's travel expenses, I will coordinate with Dimitri and make the necessary travel and hotel arrangements. Dimitri, what say you? Are you willing in flying to California to address the Mother of All Cypherpunk Meetings? I hope so. I'm sure it would be one of our most highly attended meetings. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
his choice of topic, of course.
"Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
Given the choice of discussing crypto, or his own bizzare fantasies, the Good Dr. opts for the latter ... Somehow, I'm not at all surprised. Can we book his flight on ValuJett? -r.w.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dimitri wrote:
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
his choice of topic, of course.
"Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
As I said, Dimitri's choice of topic. I take it that his reply means he is accepting my offer. Please contact me via private e-mail, Dimitri, so we may work out the details of your trip and presentation. Will you need a slide projector, or will you bring your own? S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
his choice of topic, of course.
"Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks meeting. (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :). How about you and Tim sit down and *NICELY* talk about your differences? It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and would probably be a lot more civil, too. Zach Babayco zachb@netcom.com <-------Finger for PGP Public Key http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/4127 ----- If you need to know how to set up a mail filter or defend against emailbombs, send me a message with the words "get helpfile" (without the " marks) in the SUBJECT: header. I have several useful FAQ's and documents available.
Z.B. wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
his choice of topic, of course. "Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks meeting. (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :). How about you and Tim sit down and *NICELY* talk about your differences? It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and would probably be a lot more civil, too.
What cypherpunks meeting? Is this a joke? People are lining up to pay for this. Better than Romans -vs- Christians, etc.
"Z.B." <zachb@netcom.com> writes:
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
his choice of topic, of course.
"Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks meeting. (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :).
No deal, then. I suggest that for your next meeting you book Timmy May to perform live sex acts on stage with his two cats, as Ray and Zach do the Macarena circle-jerk.
How about you and Tim sit down and *NICELY* talk about your differences?
How about Timmy posting an apology and a retraction to this list?
It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and would probably be a lot more civil, too.
Zach, I don't think you've been on this list long enough to realize that Timmy started flaming me for no apparent reason, and lying about me, and attributing to me various shit I never said. I'm just pointing out that he's a liar and a generally despicable net.scum. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Dimitri wrote:
"Z.B." <zachb@netcom.com> writes:
Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks meeting. (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :).
No deal, then...
MY invitation to Dimitri has NO topic limitations, Zach's suggestion to the contrary notwithstanding. Do I take it, Dimitri, we have a tentative agreement for you to come and speak at an SF area Cypherpunks meeting at our expense? You are so vocal usually. Why will you not respond to my invitation? I consider this rude even by Russian standards. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and would probably be a lot more civil, too.
Zach, I don't think you've been on this list long enough to realize that Timmy started flaming me for no apparent reason, and lying about me, and attributing to me various shit I never said. I'm just pointing out that he's a liar and a generally despicable net.scum.
I've been on this list for around a year, and nothing that I've seen (on here) has given you enough reason for the type of senseless garbage flowing freely from your fingers. While Tim (along with the rest of us) is no angel your problems with him should be sent directly to him and not the Cypherpunks list where it appears to the rest of us that you are having a one-sided, drug-induced ranting fest. I simply can't comprehend why someone with your alleged credentials and knowledge would want to make their peers see them as a foul-mouthed, ignorant teenager. So, explain yourself. ________________________________ [ Bruce M. - Feist Systems, Inc. ] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "We don't want to get our butts kicked by a bunch of long-haired 26-year-olds with earrings." -- General John Sheehan on their reasons for InfoWar involvement
"Dimitri" == Dimitri Vulis KOTM <dlv@bwalk.dm.com> writes:
Dimitri> Zach, I don't think you've been on this list long enough to Dimitri> realize that Timmy started flaming me for no apparent reason, Dimitri> and lying about me, and attributing to me various shit I Dimitri> never said. I'm just pointing out that he's a liar and a Dimitri> generally despicable net.scum.
From the cypherpunks memory division.
Tim's message: X-From-Line: cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Tue Aug 27 23:54:53 1996 Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by deanna.miranova.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA23346 for <steve@miranova.com>; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:54:53 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA11091 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from you.got.net (root@scir-gotnet.znet.net [207.167.86.126]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA11086 for <cypherpunks@toad.com>; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.199.118.202] (tcmay.got.net [205.199.118.202]) by you.got.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01052 for <cypherpunks@toad.com>; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:57:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:57:07 -0700 X-Sender: tcmay@mail.got.net Message-Id: <ae492e2b01021004ff49@[205.199.118.202]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: cypherpunks@toad.com From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) Subject: Re: Hayek (was: Cato Institute conference on Net-regulation) Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com Precedence: bulk Lines: 35 Xref: deanna.miranova.com cypherpunks:3651 At 4:26 AM 8/28/96, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Senile tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) rants:
Indeed, Hayek has had a _lot_ to do with the Cypherpunks! From "The Road to Serfdom" to "Law, Legislation, and Liberty," his works have exerted a profound influence on me, and on many others.
But he's fucking unreadable. I plan to teach economic this semester and make every student read Hazlitt (economics in 1 lesson). I can't force them to read hayek (or Rothbard) because they're fucking unreadable. Shit.
Well, to one who inserts "(spit)" after nearly every name he cites, and critiques Hayek as "fucking unreadable. Shit.," I suppose Hayek must indeed seem unreadable. Shit. After all, Hayek rarely writes things like: "The senile Von Mises (spit) and his Sovok Cabal plotters...." As to "forcing" your students to read Hayek, just who is in charge? If you're the instructor, they can choose to read what you tell them to read, or be unprepared on the exams you give and possibly flunk the class. What part of "Required Reading" do you or your students not understand? --Tim (spit) May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." And Vulis' response: X-From-Line: cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Wed Aug 28 22:13:01 1996 Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by deanna.miranova.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA00376 for <steve@miranova.com>; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:13:00 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA07932 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [136.161.128.3]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07921 for <cypherpunks@toad.com>; Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA14701 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 96 00:01:11 -0400 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Wed, 28 Aug 96 19:36:40 EDT for cypherpunks@toad.com To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Hayek (was: Cato Institute conference on Net-regulation) From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: Dole/Kemp '96! Message-Id: <8a0DTD20w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 19:19:30 EDT In-Reply-To: <ae492e2b01021004ff49@[205.199.118.202]> Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com Precedence: bulk Lines: 47 Xref: deanna.miranova.com cypherpunks:3729 Senile tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) (fart) rants:
At 4:26 AM 8/28/96, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Senile tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) rants:
Indeed, Hayek has had a _lot_ to do with the Cypherpunks! From "The Road t Serfdom" to "Law, Legislation, and Liberty," his works have exerted a profound influence on me, and on many others.
But he's fucking unreadable. I plan to teach economic this semester and make every student read Hazlitt (economics in 1 lesson). I can't force them to read hayek (or Rothbard) because they're fucking unreadable. Shit.
Well, to one who inserts "(spit)" after nearly every name he cites, and critiques Hayek as "fucking unreadable. Shit.," I suppose Hayek must indeed seem unreadable. Shit.
Are you jealous, Tim )fart)? You're just a senile old fart, not worth my spittle. I make you feel better I'll put (fart) after you stupid name. Shit.
After all, Hayek rarely writes things like: "The senile Von Mises (spit) and his Sovok Cabal plotters...."
Senile Tim May (fart) exposes himself as a liar by attributing to me shit I've never said (Pidor Vorobiev's forgeries). Please stop polluting this mailing list with your lies and personal attacks.
As to "forcing" your students to read Hayek, just who is in charge? If you're the instructor, they can choose to read what you tell them to read, or be unprepared on the exams you give and possibly flunk the class. What part of "Required Reading" do you or your students not understand?
It's been many years since Tim May (spit) has been to college, hasn't it? I don't blackmail my students into doing the work they don't want to do by blackmailing them with grades. When I taught comp.sec., I said from the start that everyone gets an A, and I trust tgen to be motivated enough to read everything I _suggest_ they read. And they all did a great job and earn3d their A's. Senile Tim May (fart) is a fucking statist asshole. Fuck you and fuck your criminal Arm*nian grandparents. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps -- steve@miranova.com baur Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message. What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"? Coincidence? I think not.
Well, I don't think he much cares what enyone thinks. If he did, he wouldn't be spewing childish obscene SPAM about Tim May non-stop. I've never seen someone engage in such a singlehanded & through devastation of their own credibility as Dimitri has to his own. To say the least the SPAM coming to the list from him is totaly innapropriate. Hell, the periodic junk-spam-mail I get to 'make money fast' is less obnoxious. In any case I wish he'd fall off a pier, he certainly isn't much of a cypherpunk in my rather liberal interpretation of what it takes. I applaude any efforts to get him to shut up, and/or go away. Hopefully something productive will happen, that would be a real win/win, like he get's hired by the FBI, get's off this list, and he causes counter-productivity there, as well as is gone from here. Tim
WOW! Dimitri as the featured roast, Dean Martin style, would be enough for me to seriously consider leaving my high desert Utah safe house! "Circus? Why would I want to go to the circus?. Dimitri is the featured speaker at SF CP Mtg!" (apologies to Will Rogers) -- Truth is always stranger than fiction, and the line between is perception.
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
Bay Area Cypherpunks,
I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting. I certainly would like to meet a real cryptographer, and I'm sure many of you would too. We should throw in a hotel room and local transportation as well. I want Dimitri to be our featured speaker--his choice of topic, of course.
I am ABSOLUTELY serious in this offer, but I will need donations from other Cypherpunks. If I get sufficient pledges to cover Dimitri's travel expenses, I will coordinate with Dimitri and make the necessary travel and hotel arrangements.
Dimitri, what say you? Are you willing in flying to California to address the Mother of All Cypherpunk Meetings? I hope so. I'm sure it would be one of our most highly attended meetings.
I hereby pledge $50. :) Now who is funding the baseball bat committee on this same topic? :) ============================================================================= + ^ + | Ray Arachelian |FL| KAOS KERAUNOS KYBERNETOS |==/|\== \|/ |sunder@brainlink.com|UL|__Nothing_is_true,_all_is_permitted!_|=/\|/\= <--+-->| ------------------ |CG|What part of 'Congress shall make no |=\/|\/= /|\ | "A toast to Odin, |KA| law abridging the freedom of speech'|==\|/== + v + | God of pretzles!" |AK| do you not understand? |======= ===================http://www.brainlink.COM/~sunder/========================= ActiveX! ActiveX! Format Hard drive? Just say yes!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Ray Arachelian wrote:
I hereby pledge $50. :) Now who is funding the baseball bat committee on this same topic? :)
Thanks you Ray. Now who's next? S a n d y P.S. Regretably, if Dimitri has big enough 'nads to take us up on this offer, as my guest, he will be under the mantle of my protection. Therefore, no kinetic, edged or energy weapons allowed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.S. Regretably, if Dimitri has big enough 'nads to take us up on this offer, as my guest, he will be under the mantle of my protection. Therefore, no kinetic, edged or energy weapons allowed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I doubt he's got the nads. He'd take the money and run, or take the ticket and get a refund or something. so if all those weapons are out of the way, that leaves biological weaponry. This means that we have to find someone who's got a really bad case of the flu to shake his hands, right? :) ============================================================================= + ^ + | Ray Arachelian |FL| KAOS KERAUNOS KYBERNETOS |==/|\== \|/ |sunder@brainlink.com|UL|__Nothing_is_true,_all_is_permitted!_|=/\|/\= <--+-->| ------------------ |CG|What part of 'Congress shall make no |=\/|\/= /|\ | "A toast to Odin, |KA| law abridging the freedom of speech'|==\|/== + v + | God of pretzles!" |AK| do you not understand? |======= ===================http://www.brainlink.COM/~sunder/========================= ActiveX! ActiveX! Format Hard drive? Just say yes!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Ray Arachelian wrote:
I doubt he's got the nads. He'd take the money and run, or take the ticket and get a refund or something.
That will not be allowed to happen.
so if all those weapons are out of the way, that leaves biological weaponry.
No Ray. No weapons of any sort. He gets this one for free. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting. I certainly would like to meet a real cryptographer, and I'm sure many of you would too. We should throw in a hotel room and local transportation as well. I want Dimitri to be our featured speaker--his choice of topic, of course.
It's strange that all this stuff with Dimitri has reached the level that it has. I don't know how many CPers finally made it for INFOWARCON in DC last month, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that, in addition to myself, there were several others, including Dimitri. In fact, Dimitri and I sat together with Eric Hughes and a couple of other list members during lunch one day. I am afraid that, for those of you who do not know him and are expecting some ranting tyrant, you're going to be rather disappointed. He was soft-spoken, almost difficult to hear, sometimes, it seemed, even rather shy. He made numerous insightful comments on any number of topics, was a pleasant conversationalist, and, in fact, acted like a gentleman in ever instance when I saw or spoke with him. To meet him solely in person, you'd be impressed with his obviously diverse education and background, and rather quiet disposition. As anti-climactic as it may be, he was actually a nice, unassuming fellow with a sense of humor and a pleasant demeanor. Hell, he even had decent table manners. Which is why, for the life of me, I can't understand how all these postings from him are coming from the same human being. The man I met seemed incapable of such rage, bitterness and utter detestation. It's as much Jekyll/Hyde as I've ever seen between on and off line personas. Oh, well - maybe there really _are_ that many people for whom life on the screen is lived through some distortion or parallel of who and what they are. I like the realspace Dimitri much better, and I certainly don't want to dissuade anyone from contributing, nor would I seek to scuttle a free trip to S.F for Dimitri, but some mysteries are best left undiscovered. If it's high-stakes entertainment you seek, you may find that you prefer the character to the actor. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- |And if Dole wins and dies in office, they| Mark Aldrich | |could just pickle him and no one would | GRCI INFOSEC Engineering | |notice. It wouldn't be the first time we| maldrich@grci.com | |had a dill-dole running the country. | MAldrich@dockmaster.ncsc.mil| | -- Alan Olsen | | |_______________________________________________________________________| |The author is PGP Empowered. Public key at: finger maldrich@grci.com | | The opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the author | | and my employer gets no credit for them whatsoever. | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Mark O. Aldrich wrote:
I am afraid that, for those of you who do not know him and are expecting some ranting tyrant, you're going to be rather disappointed. He was soft-spoken, almost difficult to hear, sometimes, it seemed, even rather shy. He made numerous insightful comments on any number of topics, was a pleasant conversationalist, and, in fact, acted like a gentleman in ever instance when I saw or spoke with him. To meet him solely in person, you'd be impressed with his obviously diverse education and background, and rather quiet disposition. As anti-climactic as it may be, he was actually a nice, unassuming fellow with a sense of humor and a pleasant demeanor. Hell, he even had decent table manners.
Given all that Mark has said, I now MORE THAN EVER want to meet Dimitri in person. But let's hear from him. BTW, another private pledge for $20 has come in. Kaching! S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:01:45 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : SANDY SANDFORT : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : :Bay Area Cypherpunks, : :I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the :SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting. Set a date for this event, I fly around the country, if I can arrange my schedual around the time of this meeting, I will gladly match the 100 USD. :We should throw in a hotel room Not so fast, let's see, if his topic is good, then I will contribute another $50 twords a stay at the Embasy Suites in Walnut Creek ( Very Nice Dimitri, they serve breakfast in bed upon request) On the flip side, if he doesn't live up to the expectations of being a world class cryptographer, well he can flop out in one of the BART stations downtown. :and local transportation as well. Let's tie this to how well he does too, if he does well, we get him a car, if he flunks out, well, he's covered there too, He can panhandle for change and ride BART. Regards, Michael Peponis PGP Encyrpted mail prefered for business corespondence finger mianigand@outlook.net for public key
participants (12)
-
attila -
Bruce M. -
Dale Thorn -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Mark O. Aldrich -
peponmc＠chris.com -
Rabid Wombat -
Ray Arachelian -
Sandy Sandfort -
Steven L Baur -
Tim Scanlon -
Z.B.