SS Obergruppenfuhrer Zimmermann (NOT!)
Anonymous User <nobody@c2.org> writes:
"Private communications between neo-Nazis on the network are effected under a program called "Pretty Good Privacy", devised by an American neo-Nazi sympathiser."
Robin Gedye (in Bonn) p.23 of "The Sunday Telegraph" January 21, 1996
Before anyone takes this nonsense too seriously, one should realize that the exhibition of such microscopic views of technology by journalists and politicians is fairly common. Who can forget Caspar Weinburger's stirring speech in front of an illegally exported low-end VAX, explaining that the machine was a sophisticated electronic device for the tracking of missiles and troop movements, now in the hands of America's enemies. Then there was the newspaper article which explained in perfect seriousness that "GIF" was a secret computer code used by child molesters to encode images of their victims. Characterizing PGP as a neo-Nazi tool for private communications written by a sympathizer, while absurd in a larger sense, is hardly sillier than the prior examples. And all such scenarios contain a microscopic grain of truth as seen by someone somewhere with a severe case of tunnel vision. The reporter no doubt reports correctly that some neo-Nazis use PGP to communicate privately. Doubtless PKZ supports the right of all people, including those with diverse political views, to conduct legal private conversations which cannot be overheard by their governments, as do most of the people on this list. I suppose in some obtuse sense this is sympathy. It is highly unlikely that anyone who uses Cypherpunk technology is as ignorant as this reporter. So let's just mail the poor guy a clue and move on. Things like this happen often, and it's not really worth a prolongued debate. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd@netcom.com $ via Finger. $
The reporter's slander against Zimmerman was not accidental, or the result of ignorance. Calling someone a Naxi sympathizer is not something that one should do without a smoking gun. This act of aggression against cypherpunks, attempts to box us into a corner. Our enemies want to keep us on the defensive. In that context, any and all energy we spend on "educating" and "correcting" is self-defeating. The hoplophobe lobby has shown, that enemies of freedom will not permit themselves to be "corrected". They will merely escalate the rate and size of their lies. Before slanders about "cop-killer bullets" could be corrected, they had moved onto "assault weapons". We need to find a way to take back the initiative. We need to find a way to put the fear of God into liers. Violence won't work, since they are capable of human-wave attacks. I honestly don't know what reporters and editors fear the most. But, even a snake can be trained, if you can pinpoint the proper negative feedback. Alan Horowitz alanh@norfolk.infi.net
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
Alan Horowitz writes:
[...] Okay. I think I understand. You're a fruitcake. Easy enough.
The official pastry of the 1996 Cypherpunks. One might note that Zimmerman isn't, er, a common name for yer typical Neo-Nazi... This sort of accusation is sufficient grounds for libel in the UK (such accusations have been found to be defamatory, and would almost certainly be settled within a few days. Of course Phil (Hallam Baker) has more experience with this sort of thing... Simon
We need to find a way to take back the initiative. We need to find a way to put the fear of God into liers.
I'm outta step here, I know, but it seems to me that if we're going to go around advocating anonymity and technology that makes censorship impossible we'd better grow thicker skins. Phil changed the world. Maybe not as much as people like Roosevelt or Reagan, but a lot more than most people do. He wrote a software package that's in wide use, and which has lots of admirers. He used technology to effect positive political changes around the world -- noteworthy both for the effect and the ingenuity of the strategy. And he stood up under a personal attack from the government. They came at him, but he took it and won. Everyone who does something extraordinary gets hit with pot shots. It's part of the package. Is it a terrible thing that someone called him a name in print? Yes. If he's got a case, he should sue. But something tells me he's tough enough to take it either way.
Violence won't work, since they are capable of human-wave attacks.
And because it's wrong?
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Alex Strasheim wrote:
We need to find a way to take back the initiative. We need to find a way to put the fear of God into liers.
I'm outta step here, I know, but it seems to me that if we're going to go around advocating anonymity and technology that makes censorship impossible we'd better grow thicker skins.
(Hear)^2
Is it a terrible thing that someone called him a name in print? Yes. If he's got a case, he should sue. But something tells me he's tough enough to take it either way.
Geez, guys, they didn't even do that. Some rag said that Nazis used PGP. Some anonymous guy forwarded, without substantive comment, a report of the above. The report is true, to a point. Nazis use PGP. So do child pornographers, anti-Nazis, rapists, women who have been raped and don't care for the world to know, major US and international corporations, and the US Military (most of the computer security bulletins I see from .mil are PGP-signed). I thought the report was totally bogus, and I took Mr. Anonymous's posting to be a joke -- see, first those silly people who don't understand anything are attacking the Internet because it's got these dirty pictures on it, now they say there's Nazis using encryption on it. Was there nobody else who was able to look at that and laugh? Sheesh.
Violence won't work, since they are capable of human-wave attacks.
And because it's wrong?
"Wrong" is irrelevant, because it's unenforceable. Right, guys? Don't be such a girlie, Alex. What we need is amoral deterrence at the most atomistic level, right? Heck, it's the only thing that we know works. -rich Fucking Statist
gee, Alan, maybe I was a bit hasty calling you a liberal! but at least your friends got a laugh out of it. they say as you get older, you are supposed to mellow... Tim --any comment, are you more or less irrascable? I know my answer! looks like the Telegraph is retracting the stories in a big way, including the possibility PRZ may be a hero for freedom! This is a contest: 1. "The Constitution is not a law, but it empowers the people to make laws.... The Constitution tells us what shall not be a lawful tender.... The legislature has ceded up to us the privilege of enacting laws as are not in consistent with the Constitution of the United States.... The different states, and even Congress itself, have passed many laws diametrically contrary to the Constitution of the United States. "...Shall we be such fools as to be governed by its laws, which are unconstitutional? No! ...The Constitution acknowledges that the people have all the power not reserved to itself. I am a lawyer, a big lawyer and comprehend heaven, earth, and hell, to bring forth knowledge that shall cover up all lawyers, doctors and other big bodies. This is the doctrine of the Constitution, so help me God. The Constitution is not law to us, but it makes provisions for us whereby we can make laws. Where it provides that no one shall be hindered from worshipping God according to his own conscience, is a law. No legislature can enact a law to prohibit it. The Constitution provides to regulate bodies of men and not individuals." 2. "If we have to give up our chartered rights, privileges, and freedom, which our fathers fought, bled, and died for, and which the constittion of the United States and of this state guarantee unto us, we will do so only at the point of the sword and the bayonet." !!! the test: who said this, and when, and where is it referenced? I haven't figured out a prize, but maybe a character mode face --how about Bubba? or even better yet, King Hillary, standing up to give the oath before Congress tomorrow --do you think she will finish the oath as written: "So help me God" -? too bad I do not even own a television (snake oil makes me break out in hives); Hillary should be great as my money says she will still lie --until she learns that the only way of not trapping yourself in contradictions eventually means your tell the truth On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Alan Horowitz wrote:
The reporter's slander against Zimmerman was not accidental, or the result of ignorance. Calling someone a Naxi sympathizer is not something that one should do without a smoking gun.
I agree, except the press forgets rights in favour of scandal which means money, and money begets money (advertisers).
This act of aggression against cypherpunks, attempts to box us into a corner. Our enemies want to keep us on the defensive. In that context, any and all energy we spend on "educating" and "correcting" is self-defeating. The hoplophobe lobby has shown, that enemies of freedom will not permit themselves to be "corrected". They will merely escalate the rate and size of their lies. Before slanders about "cop-killer bullets" could be corrected, they had moved onto "assault weapons".
We need to find a way to take back the initiative. We need to find a way to put the fear of God into liers. Violence won't work, since they are capable of human-wave attacks.
I honestly don't know what reporters and editors fear the most. But, even a snake can be trained, if you can pinpoint the proper negative feedback.
advertising dollars going down the drain. litigation, even if frivolous against corporate advertisers for supporting falsehoods and innuendos which will destroy the american way of life. Stockholder lawsuits are often the most effective. I do not like the "means" of U.S. Courts, but they are always using the courts against us, so turnabout is fair play. attila
Alan Horowitz alanh@norfolk.infi.net
__________________________________________________________________________ go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say: yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off. _________________________________________________________________ attila__ To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches.... There is no safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be.
participants (7)
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Alan Horowitz -
Alex Strasheim -
attila -
mpd＠netcom.com -
Perry E. Metzger -
Rich Graves -
Simon Spero