~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, Alan Olsen still thinks totalitarians can succeed in industrial countries. He wrote: ... But it is also the case that industrial countries, when they fall on hard times tend to fall back on an authoritarian "bread and circuses" approach to governing. Examples, please. Fascism in 1930's Germany was certainly NOT one such government. National Socialism, of course, had its "bread" aspect, but their were no "circuses" in the Roman sense. While Bread and Circuses is one technique to keep a population in line, it is quite separate from the military/police state method chosen by the NAZIs. In any event, NAZI Germany supports the proposition that modern totalitarianism, by its nature, must be short lived. How long did the "Thousand Year Reich" last? ... We have the control freaks just wating to gain the power and more waiting in the wings. They have the money and they have the technology.... "They," again? I thought it might be "them." The Illuminati, right? Or is it the Trilateral Commission, the Jesuits, or the CIA? Who are these control freaks who "have the money and ... the technology"? Jeez, and some call me paranoid for being a privacy advocate. When I wrote, "There will be some temporary, local setbacks in the coming years, and have some mopping up to do, but we've already won." Alan responded: Don't be too smug yet... There are people in power who have not figured out that totalitarian states cannot survive.... Logic and reason have nothing to do with the "thought patterns" of these people. Roadrunner logic. Wiley Coyote runs over the edge of a cliff. Miraculously, he is suspended in the air until he makes the mistake of looking down. Only when he becomes aware of his predicament does he fall. My point still is, the totalitarians don't have to figure out anything; their "thought patterns" are irrelevant; reality still rules. They will not survive. Besides, it is not their money they are spending on this. It is yours. Are you sure they're spending *my* money? With each advance in privacy technology, they have less access to *anyone's* money. As far as I have been able to determine, the only thing that you can do with a control freak is to kill him before he obtains any position of power. (Or wrap him in duct tape and feed him lots of Thorazine(tm).) Or, with a little ingenuity, you could structure your life so you could just ignore him. Living well is the best revenge. S a n d y "Who finds he needs to spend far less time fighting the Great Enemy, than educating the nattering nabobs of negativism." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Examples, please. Fascism in 1930's Germany was certainly NOT one such government. National Socialism, of course, had its "bread" aspect, but their were no "circuses" in the Roman sense. While Bread and Circuses is one technique to keep a population in line, it is quite separate from the military/police state method chosen by the NAZIs. In any event, NAZI Germany supports the proposition that modern totalitarianism, by its nature, must be short lived. How long did the "Thousand Year Reich" last?
I take it you don't take the comparison between the Roman circuses where prisoners and other misfits (ie Christians) were fed to the lions and and the Tutonic cirucses of the 30's and 40's (ie prison or relocation camps) where the criminal and other misfits (ie Jewish) were fed to the masochistic 'system' as comparable? The Warsaw Ghetto was not a form of 'circus' then? I beg to differ. Both the Germans and the Romans held sway because of one over-bearing fact, each controlled the best 'ass-kickers' around at the time.
"They," again? I thought it might be "them." The Illuminati, right? Or is it the Trilateral Commission, the Jesuits, or the CIA? Who are these control freaks who "have the money and ... the technology"? Jeez, and some call me paranoid for being a privacy advocate.
'They' are the persons with money and influence and have also made it in their best interest to sustain the status quo. Just take a look at the Federal Reserve and how they manage the money in this country. Take a look at the special interest political groups who make it their job to get law-makers to look at it 'their' way.
Roadrunner logic. Wiley Coyote runs over the edge of a cliff. Miraculously, he is suspended in the air until he makes the mistake of looking down. Only when he becomes aware of his predicament does he fall. My point still is, the totalitarians don't have to figure out anything; their "thought patterns" are irrelevant; reality still rules. They will not survive.
Just exactly whose reality are we talking about ruling here? It seems to me that when talking about 'reality' and thought processes one has managed to jump track in a major sort of way. The problem with this view is that people do not analyze their choices the same way you analyze some physical problem like building a bridge. Christians definately look at the worl around them in a different 'reality' then the way that a pantheist like myself look at it. Consider, if you will, the difference in outlook of a commen every day occurance when viewed with the concept of a 'ghost in the machine' versus the purely mechanistic. I think you will find that the most trivial things take on very different appearances.
Besides, it is not their money they are spending on this. It is yours.
I can assure you that the folks out there will spend their money if it is clear that they will make more of it in the long run. While it is true that public monies are the easiest to spend because of its anonymity it is not the only resource that is there. Consider under-the-table bribes and such.
Or, with a little ingenuity, you could structure your life so you could just ignore him. Living well is the best revenge.
I am afraid that if you ignore a control freak you build the perfect environ for their growth. We are not talking about roses here but rather ideas, a decidedly different animal. Ideas can grow long after the original thinker is gone. To ignore rather than confront and expose is the best way possible to get what you don't want.
participants (2)
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Jim choate -
Sandy Sandfort