Re: meaningless rumor
From a high-level source in contact with an *extremely* high level source: Rumor: Moby Crypto was targeted because G. Ward intended to include PGP on distribution disks. The investigation is primarily PGP oriented, and G. Ward is just a bystander who got caught up. PRZ & PGP is the essential target. Notes (1) phrasing of the subpoenas definitely confirms this -- PGP is mentioned in both. (2) can we find any Usenet postings where G. Ward announced intent to distribute PGP with Moby Crypto to help confirm this? Ward posted a note that (in essence) asked for help in evading the ITARs. (Well, I suppose it could have been someone forging a posting...). He went so far as to offer to provide mailing labels to someone abroad who would redistribute Moby Crypto, though from a country where that would be legal -- but never said how the first copy would get to the trans- shipment point. Some reasons were given why this sequence was going to be technically legal -- but if you were a U.S. attorney investigating the export of cryptographic software, it's the sort of thing that almost has to be investigated. Face it -- if Ward *wanted* to generate a test case, he couldn't have done a much better job; a private note to the authorities could have been ``misfiled'', but an announcement to tens of thousands of readers around the world? C'mon -- they may or may not be stupid, and they may or may not be paranoid, but their entire raison d'etre is to wield power, and Grady just slapped that authority in the face. Spitting at your local traffic cop would have been a lot safer. As for PKP -- *somehow*, it wandered out of the U.S. Probably, someone in power decided that that finally needed investigating in detail, to see if a law was broken. And Sternlight is right -- if they decide to indict, they may throw in charges of importing IDEA, though I doubt that they'd indict just on those grounds; in an era of key escrow, they'd certainly like a court to rule they had the power to exclude subversive foreign crypto.... --Steve Bellovin
if a law was broken. And Sternlight is right -- if they decide to indict, they may throw in charges of importing IDEA ...
THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST THE IMPORT OF CRYPTOGRAPHY! How many times does this idiocy have to be squashed? John PS: I heard a rumor it's against the law to breathe.
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they may throw in charges of importing IDEA, though I doubt that they'd indict just on those grounds; in an era of key escrow, they'd certainly like a court to rule they had the power to exclude subversive foreign crypto.... ..... --Steve Bellovin
Steve, Assuming that whoevever implemented PGP did not himself import the cipher, but based the implementation on the EUROCRYPT '90 paper that was 'imported' by Springer-Verlag, I don't understand what the basis would be for such a charge. Now an indictment against Springer for shipping the proceedings (which contained C source code for IDEA) into the US - that would be interesting... -matt
Assuming that whoevever implemented PGP did not himself import the cipher, but based the implementation on the EUROCRYPT '90 paper that was 'imported' by Springer-Verlag, I don't understand what the basis would be for such a charge. Now an indictment against Springer for shipping the proceedings (which contained C source code for IDEA) into the US - that would be interesting...
Wait a minute. Does ITAR actuall prohibit importing crypto _to_ the US? I've never heard of it being used this way. brad
Wait a minute. Does ITAR actuall prohibit importing crypto _to_ the US? I've never heard of it being used this way.
Most of the interpretation that I have heard, including an interpretation from Jim Bidzos, say that crypto imports _INTO_ the US are LEGAL, unless that piece of crypto was *illegally* exported from the US first. So, if A was illegally exported, you cannot import it and expect it to be legal. However, if it was developed outside the US, you can legally bring it into the US, according to this interpretation. David Sternlight has a different opinion. (Which I'm sure he'd gladly fill you mailbox explaining :-). -derek Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, G MIT Media Laboratory Secretary, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) PGP key available from pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu warlord@MIT.EDU PP-ASEL N1NWH
participants (5)
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Brad Huntting -
Derek Atkins -
gnu -
Matt Blaze -
smb@research.att.com