This judge needs killing
Uk News: Judge David Selwood today sentenced 3 writers for the magazine "Green Anarchist" to 3 years imprisonment each for their articles in the magazine which he concluded incited others to break the law. The magazine contained diaries for the previous months animal rights activism events and contained articles generally favourable to the cause of animal liberation. Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
At 11:39 AM -0700 11/13/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
Uk News:
Judge David Selwood today sentenced 3 writers for the magazine "Green Anarchist" to 3 years imprisonment each for their articles in the magazine which he concluded incited others to break the law. The magazine contained diaries for the previous months animal rights activism events and contained articles generally favourable to the cause of animal liberation.
Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.
This stifling of free speech, by both state and corporate interests, is a trend spreadingl like wildfire in the Western world. Libel, slander, defamation, damage, incitement, sedition, and obscenity cases are squelching free speech. Publishers are held liable for the words of others, and even distributors are held liable. Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the police will be forced to do so. (Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May
Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the police will be forced to do so.
Don't forget C2Net emplpoyess "Lucky Green" and Greg Broils spreading lies about their employer's censorship. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
At 9:26 PM -0700 11/14/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
Tim May wrote:
(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt the criminal charges only after some time.
In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.
Besides government raids, we are all too susceptible on things like internet providers kicking us out, hard drives failing, and so on. Theree nodes is not a good redundancy.
I plead foreign cypherpunks to at least establish backup nodes that could be turned on should anything happen to the US-based ones.
I said this several years ago and I'll say it again: the Usenet is already set up for multinational, distributed, essentially uncensorable communication. I used to try to copy many of my posts to alt.cypherpunks shortly after it was created, right after the the Great February End of Toad.com, but in recent months I haven'te bothered (mainly because no interesting communication was occurring in the alt.cypherpunks arena). One need only look to Usenet for a robust, automatically (and automagically) distributed system. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May wrote:
(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt the criminal charges only after some time. In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily. Besides government raids, we are all too susceptible on things like internet providers kicking us out, hard drives failing, and so on. Theree nodes is not a good redundancy. I plead foreign cypherpunks to at least establish backup nodes that could be turned on should anything happen to the US-based ones. - Igor.
Timothy C. May writes:
One need only look to Usenet for a robust, automatically (and automagically) distributed system.
Usenet is horribly unreliable, alt and obscure newsgroups doubly so. Usenet is also slow. Posts can take days to schlep their way across servers. A mailing list or web-based Cypherpunks, gated to and from a newsgroup, might be an acceptable compromise. That way we could still chat in something resembling real time, with the newsgroup to fall back upon in case SWAT teams took out all the list servers. Of course, a newsgroup any moron could access from AOL without having to "subscrive" would probably attract additional trolls and spam. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.
This stifling of free speech, by both state and corporate interests, is a trend spreadingl like wildfire in the Western world.
Indeed, it is more and more the case that I see opinions in officials and members of the public that would be comically stupid, if they did not infringe so far on the rights of others. There are many reasons for this, mostly rooted in the controlled media, education as well, to choose any old example, the use in schools of the word "wrong" to mean "illegal" restricts the vocabulary of children in such a way as to encourage the synonymity of the two words, eg. If the govt. says it`s wrong it is wrong, regardless of the ethical arguments. Even seemingly intelligent adults fail to make the distinction between legality/illegality and right/wrong. I may be ranting here, but whenever I get into discussion about this I am reminded of the stubborn behaviour of many acquaintances of mine, even some fairly intelligent family members who, given the chance, would restrict the speech of others to what was deemed "appropriate", this in turn leaves me ranting and frustrated because I cannot get away with putting these people up against a wall and taking the appropriate action with a .45, which, I can assure you, would relieve a great deal of stress.
Libel, slander, defamation, damage, incitement, sedition, and obscenity cases are squelching free speech. Publishers are held liable for the words of others, and even distributors are held liable.
Indeed, Libel is merely an official way of recovering losses incurred due to the stupidity of the general public, if I publish a defamatory and unpleasant story about Tim in a newsgroup, he can sue me because of the damage done to his reputation, of course, only stupid members of the public believe unfounded and referenceless (is that a real word???? ;-)) defamatory stories about others, and the more people that believe a story, the higher the compensation required, hence, it can be shown that the relative size of libel case settlements is inversely proportional to the average IQ of the general public ;-)....
(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
Looks like it`s about time I set up majordomo on my other acct and started running a node, lets see what UK law has to say. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
Tim May wrote:
At 9:26 PM -0700 11/14/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
Tim May wrote:
(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt the criminal charges only after some time.
In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.
Besides government raids, we are all too susceptible on things like internet providers kicking us out, hard drives failing, and so on. Theree nodes is not a good redundancy.
I plead foreign cypherpunks to at least establish backup nodes that could be turned on should anything happen to the US-based ones.
I said this several years ago and I'll say it again: the Usenet is already set up for multinational, distributed, essentially uncensorable communication.
I used to try to copy many of my posts to alt.cypherpunks shortly after it was created, right after the the Great February End of Toad.com, but in recent months I haven'te bothered (mainly because no interesting communication was occurring in the alt.cypherpunks arena).
One need only look to Usenet for a robust, automatically (and automagically) distributed system.
You are right, USENET is a good medium. If cypherpunks list ever gets seriously harassed by authorities, migrating to a USENET newsgroup makes sense. At the same time, since a lot of people actually prefer the list as the cypherpunks medium, it would be "nice" to keep it working the way it is now if it is possible at all. The more likely scenario than gummint harassment, at least right now, is a technical failure of one or two nodes. Adding more redundancy would keep the list that we like more stable. - Igor.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In
At 11:39 AM -0700 11/13/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
Uk News:
Judge David Selwood today sentenced 3 writers for the magazine "Green Anarchist" to 3 years imprisonment each for their articles in the magazine which he concluded incited others to break the law. The magazine contained diaries for the previous months animal rights activism events and contained articles generally favourable to the cause of animal liberation.
Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.
This stifling of free speech, by both state and corporate interests, is a trend spreadingl like wildfire in the Western world.
Libel, slander, defamation, damage, incitement, sedition, and obscenity cases are squelching free speech. Publishers are held liable for the words of others, and even distributors are held liable.
Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the police will be forced to do so.
(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
If anyone here needs a real world example of how fear and intimidation have a stifling effect on free speech all one has to do is look at the abandoned British subjects in Hong Kong (truly a dark day in this history of UK). While China has done nothing yet to clamp down on speech in Hong Kong self censorship is rampet their for fear of what they "might" do. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNG8HU49Co1n+aLhhAQGj+QP7BpSRYJh313QcpR8lsPjPlFX6vyu6Kqo7 lcJkY7uCjt1XILNmGYNV5PLCRDqJHfOLU864Nu4BVGOdMv2zuTllExM6tMbZQwo7 IEnFgRExL2HUv36GecjmU3Rdr0x8fJ/IlfAMA9gkqVwRwzVMzj62AWHUodXnrAL7 5lj5j2QZc3s= =NT2F -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 7:38 AM -0700 11/16/97, William H. Geiger III wrote:
If anyone here needs a real world example of how fear and intimidation have a stifling effect on free speech all one has to do is look at the abandoned British subjects in Hong Kong (truly a dark day in this history of UK). While China has done nothing yet to clamp down on speech in Hong Kong self censorship is rampet their for fear of what they "might" do.
William Burroughs warned of "the policeman inside." (A variation of my "Big Brother Inside" logo might be "Policeman Inside." Perhaps as many as one in ten thousand might catch the Burroughs reference.) As Bob Hettinga, Kent Crispin, and other policemen inside are warning, if we don't censor ourselves, if we don't narc out others, the real police will have to do it for us. Welcome to the New World Order. Of course, an alternative is to say "Fuck you" to those who want us to shut up, to deploy more unbreakable crypto, to encourage more armed militias to spring up, to destabilize the regimes in Hong Kong, Japan, and India, and to "Just Say No" to backdoors in PGP and other crypto products. Bring on crypto anarchy. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May
up, to deploy more unbreakable crypto, to encourage more armed militias to spring up, to destabilize the regimes in Hong Kong, Japan, and India, and
And the U.S. too. Death to the fascists! Nuke Washington, DC!!!!1!1! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
On Sun, Nov 16, 1997 at 09:03:50AM -0700, Tim "Ad Hominem" May wrote: [...]
As Bob Hettinga, Kent Crispin, and other policemen inside are warning, if we don't censor ourselves, if we don't narc out others, the real police will have to do it for us. Welcome to the New World Order.
You're of the "courtesy == censorship" school, clearly.
Of course, an alternative is to say "Fuck you" to those who want us to shut up,
Apparently the only alternative that you understand.
to deploy more unbreakable crypto, to encourage more armed militias to spring up, to destabilize the regimes in Hong Kong, Japan, and India, and to "Just Say No" to backdoors in PGP and other crypto products. Bring on crypto anarchy.
Yeah, yeah. You won't live to see it, Tim. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
At 10:26 PM 11/14/1997 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt the criminal charges only after some time.
In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.
I used to try to copy many of my posts to alt.cypherpunks shortly after it was created, right after the the Great February End of Toad.com, but in recent months I haven'te bothered (mainly because no interesting communication was occurring in the alt.cypherpunks arena). Usenet is a _great_ place to run Blacknet, because background noise is your friend, and the uncensorability depends on piggybacking on the firehose. It's a tougher place to run a cypherpunks list, which has enough problems with signal-to-noise ratio as a mailing list, where majordomo filters out
Cypherpunks-e@htp.com is in Japan, though I don't know if it only gets feeds off of ssz or also off algebra and cyberpass. And the archive's in Singapore. Also, there are a bunch of Usenet mirrors, mostly local newsgroups. Just to balance Singapore, it'd be nice to have an archive in Amsterdam :-) Or in Virtual Tonga, or Niue. Then there's the mirror at Ft. Meade :-) At some point, though, it's difficult not to have reinvented Usenet. Tim reiterates that Usenet really is distributed, robust, and uncensorable. But the real Usenet has different failure modes - social ones: the totally non-RTFM-capable users, without being an attractive nuisance for crossposts from rec.politics.guns or alt.2600.flame.your.mama. To some extent, running a sub-Usenet, or a robomoderated newsgroup which kills crossposts from all but a select few groups, can help this. But sci.crypt.research gets very little signal these days either, though no noise. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Bill Stewart wrote:
Just to balance Singapore, it'd be nice to have an archive in Amsterdam :-) Or in Virtual Tonga, or Niue. Then there's the mirror at Ft. Meade :-)
I currently see no need for another archive. Certainly not on this Tongan
box. If some nodes go away, I might reconsider.
-- Lucky Green
Bill Stewart
Usenet is a _great_ place to run Blacknet, because background noise is your friend, and the uncensorability depends on piggybacking on the firehose.
Piggy-backing the firehose to borrow it's uncensorability was the idea
with the prototype eternity server. I am not sure USENET is really
that reliable is the problem for it. So perhaps you can boost
reliability by redundancy, secret split messages.
Adam
--
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
At 11:18 am -0500 on 11/14/97, Tim May wrote:
Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the police will be forced to do so.
Nice try, Tim. Frankly, if you, or Paul Bradley, want to stand up and call for the death of anyone, a federal judge, or the President of the United States, or the Pope, for that matter, you're welcome to do so. Have fun, you crazy kids... You just sound like loons, is all, and, at some point, you're going to piss someone off who'll have less brains but more guns than you do, and enough lawyers after the fact to make it all stick. My opinion, of course. Free speech, and all that. :-). So, no, Tim, I don't believe that the mellenium is here, that the Forces of Darkness are building in the shadows, much less going to Thanksgiving dinner at Uncle Tim's house. I think that they're just as fucked up as they always were, Tim. If we keep making progress, and, barring some major silliness you or I can't even fathom, progress in cryptography is practically an economic necessity, now, they'll continue to bluster like some charging rhino or something, but they can't hurt anyone who's paying attention and has the proper tools. So, boys and girls, do you think you can stay out of the way of a very dangerous cornered animal? Well, yes, probably, by very dint of the fact that *you've* cornered it. However, if you think it's necessary to either prove your bravery by tempting it to give you an ad hoc rectal exam, or worse, by ignoring it (no one here's guilt of that, I bet) then you're welcome to try to survive your case of testosterone poisoning, but don't say I didn't warn you... We have only the example of Jim Bell to remind us that when you bang on the gorilla's cage, you should expect to get shit thrown in your face. Yes, I saw what looks like Tim's repost of my "coalmine" message go by, and I don't think my opinion of Bell's situation has changed since then, but I've decided to shovel Tim's dreck FIFO, for the time being, to keep better tabs on it. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: http://www.fc98.ai/
I don't censor myself when I say that some things - especially violence - are evil, and perhaps even criminal, and don't support the use of technology to promote them. I happen to believe this. Saying that self-censorship is dishonorable presupposes a belief, even a hypocritical one, in honor. When one advocates anarchy, it is hard to compose a meaningful insult. When there are no rules, you cannot violate one. There also has been no attempt to prove that being "governed" by a bunch of unregulated militias would be better than what we have now. If anyone wants to encourage the destruction of our society and culture, they can do so, but it will result in a new dark age whether it is desired or not - people aren't going to be designing computers when all the power plants and telecommunications are cut, and no raw materials can move. All this crypto techonology requires an infrastructure - it doesn't work with slide rules and carrier pidgeons. There are some very thoughtful people who are defending liberty, and there are some crazed people who I would fear in proportion to their firepower since they seem to lack self-control or even intelligence (McVeigh managed to miss those who I would assume to be his targets - the ATF and FBI agents). I don't think it is wise to associate with people who like violence for the sake of violence with things like ideals being just an excuse to commit heinous crimes. I say that I am not part of any such group, although many would like to lump anyone advocating the reduction of government power with the rabid-right. I recognize that the FBI, etc. are becoming like the KGB - something which I consider to be an evil. The last thing I want to do is imitiate them by wishing for the death and injury of innocents in furtherance of my causes - that is the method of our current government. While I suggest that crimes are still crimes when committed by government, others seem to take government criminality as an excuse to advocate serious crimes on their part (or encourage other anonymous people to do). If the response to Waco and Ruby Ridge is to descend to the level of those in the government who committed the crimes, then there is no moral difference between any such person and Horiuchi. They simply aim at a different set of targets. Maybe the Cypherpunk-militia can kill more innocent people than the FBI and ATF. But would that be a victory? Is it a gain to liberty to randomly kill people? I will tell anyone who says "I want to hurt and kill innocent people" that they are wrong. If I am fighting for anything, it is for human rights. And I will challenge anyone who advocates the abridgement of those rights, even if they happen to agree with my views that cryptography enables the exercise of those rights. I believe in the extensive use of crypto because I believe in human rights, not because it can be used to abridge those rights. Those who use crypto to help commit acts of terrorism and those who use it to enslave citizens are on the same side. --- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com ---
On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 06:15:56PM -0500, nospam-seesignature@ceddec.com wrote:
I don't censor myself when I say that some things - especially violence - are evil, and perhaps even criminal, and don't support the use of technology to promote them. I happen to believe this. Saying that self-censorship is dishonorable presupposes a belief, even a hypocritical one, in honor. When one advocates anarchy, it is hard to compose a meaningful insult. When there are no rules, you cannot violate one.
However, the "anarchy" in cryptoanarchy is quite structured. (I was quite seriously criticized for using a dictionary definition of anarchy, you may recall...) If there were *no* rules, then murder is OK, and ownership means nothing. Furthermore, cryptoanarchy requires the sanctity of contracts, which implies a whole bunch. The whole notion of "the policeman inside" is stupid sloganeering. Of *course* we have a policeman inside -- we have something that tells us (at least some of us) that murder, theft, and dishonesty are behaviors to be avoided. We have something that tells us (some of us) it would be foolish to make a habit of running red lights.
There also has been no attempt to prove that being "governed" by a bunch of unregulated militias would be better than what we have now. If anyone wants to encourage the destruction of our society and culture, they can do so, but it will result in a new dark age whether it is desired or not - people aren't going to be designing computers when all the power plants and telecommunications are cut, and no raw materials can move. All this crypto techonology requires an infrastructure - it doesn't work with slide rules and carrier pidgeons.
There are some very thoughtful people who are defending liberty, and there are some crazed people who I would fear in proportion to their firepower since they seem to lack self-control or even intelligence (McVeigh managed to miss those who I would assume to be his targets - the ATF and FBI agents). I don't think it is wise to associate with people who like violence for the sake of violence with things like ideals being just an excuse to commit heinous crimes. I say that I am not part of any such group, although many would like to lump anyone advocating the reduction of government power with the rabid-right.
I recognize that the FBI, etc. are becoming like the KGB - something which I consider to be an evil. The last thing I want to do is imitiate them by wishing for the death and injury of innocents in furtherance of my causes - that is the method of our current government. While I suggest that crimes are still crimes when committed by government, others seem to take government criminality as an excuse to advocate serious crimes on their part (or encourage other anonymous people to do).
If the response to Waco and Ruby Ridge is to descend to the level of those in the government who committed the crimes, then there is no moral difference between any such person and Horiuchi. They simply aim at a different set of targets. Maybe the Cypherpunk-militia can kill more innocent people than the FBI and ATF. But would that be a victory? Is it a gain to liberty to randomly kill people?
I will tell anyone who says "I want to hurt and kill innocent people" that they are wrong. If I am fighting for anything, it is for human rights. And I will challenge anyone who advocates the abridgement of those rights, even if they happen to agree with my views that cryptography enables the exercise of those rights.
I believe in the extensive use of crypto because I believe in human rights, not because it can be used to abridge those rights. Those who use crypto to help commit acts of terrorism and those who use it to enslave citizens are on the same side.
Yep. Actually, I agree with every single thing you said, interestingly enough. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
participants (13)
-
Adam Back -
Bill Stewart -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Eric Cordian -
ichudov＠algebra.com -
ichudov＠Algebra.COM
-
Kent Crispin -
Lucky Green -
nospam-seesignature＠ceddec.com -
Paul Bradley -
Robert Hettinga -
Tim May -
William H. Geiger III