Re: Does John Gilmore...
At 08:37 AM 11/16/96 -0800, Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> wrote: [snip]
I have a suggestion for "Aga" and others who believe this sort of nonsense. Please do us all a favor and try to sue John. I'm sure that among all jack-leg and wannabe lawyers on this list that they can come up with a viable cause of action. And John has deep pockets; you could (literally) make out like bandits AND rescue "freedom of speech" on privately maintained mailing lists.
Such a case would obviously fail. John has the right to ban anyone he wants from a list that he is hosting. I do question, though, whether or not it was the best way to handle the situation. As I have argued, the availability of end-user filtering made banning Dimitri from the list unnecessary, IMHO. And the list owner giving people the boot sure doesn't fit with the picture I have had of what cypherpunks was about. YMMV. I think that John is doing a lot of great things for crypto (his participation in the Bernstein case, S/WAN, etc.) and I agree with at least 90% of the things I see him doing. I think he made the wrong call with Dimitri, though.
You could be heroes (or look ten times as foolish as you already do).
Actually, if John was trying to cut down on the noise by banning the Kook, I think it's backfired. It seems like there is even more irrational chatter now... Rich -- Rich Burroughs richieb@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/
Rich Burroughs <richieb@teleport.com> writes:
I think that John is doing a lot of great things for crypto (his participation in the Bernstein case, S/WAN, etc.) and I agree with at least 90% of the things I see him doing. I think he made the wrong call with Dimitri, though.
Banning Dimitri was a really dumb thing to do. The list is archived practically in real time on the Web and anyone can post whether or not they are subscribed, not to mention the availability of anonymous remailers, with which Cypherpunks is closely associated. So we had a unilaterial act, which was completely unenforcable, that made us all look like a bunch of clueless hypocrites in the process and filled the list with yet another pointless flame war. Indeed, we have here another classic example of not quite grasping the issues involved, much like what we see on a regular basis from the EFF as they merrily capitulate right and left with Congressrodents on bills most Cypherpunks find unacceptable. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd@netcom.com $ via Finger. $
Rich Burroughs <richieb@teleport.com> writes:
I have a suggestion for "Aga" and others who believe this sort of nonsense. Please do us all a favor and try to sue John. I'm sure that among all jack-leg and wannabe lawyers on this list that they can come up with a viable cause of action. And John has deep pockets; you could (literally) make out like bandits AND rescue "freedom of speech" on privately maintained mailing lists.
Such a case would obviously fail. John has the right to ban anyone he wants from a list that he is hosting.
Sure he does - I've been saying all along that John Gilmore has the right to act dishonorably, which he exercises. Yet the censorship supporters keep attributing to me the diametrically opposite view - that the state can force John to carry even the opinions he disagrees with. This is not what I've been saying, of course. John Gilmore lied when he attributed this opinion to me (as quoted by Declan McCulough). Only his honor could force him to do that, but he has no honor and no credibility. John had the right to exercise censorship on his private mailing list, which is precisely what he did.
I do question, though, whether or not it was the best way to handle the situation. As I have argued, the availability of end-user filtering made banning Dimitri from the list unnecessary, IMHO. And the list owner giving people the boot sure doesn't fit with the picture I have had of what cypherpunks was about. YMMV.
Same here - I used to have respect for John Gilmore, but now I don't. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
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Rich Burroughs