I recently applied for a U.S. passport and, as an experiment, entered a SSN of 000-00-0000. The nice lady at the counter informed me that it would not be processed unless I provided a valid SSN (which gets forwarded to the IRS). It was my understanding that this disclosure was voluntary and that another form was available for notifying the IRS that a passport had been applied for. My travel plans didn't allow me the luxury of delaying the application process, so I provided the damn number. Does anyone know the real rules for this situation? Must passports be cleared with the tax goons or do they just want to keep tabs on people travelling abroad?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 27 May 1997, Anonymous wrote:
I recently applied for a U.S. passport and, as an experiment, entered a SSN of 000-00-0000. The nice lady at the counter informed me that it would not be processed unless I provided a valid SSN (which gets forwarded to the IRS). It was my understanding that this disclosure was voluntary and that another form was available for notifying the IRS that a passport had been applied for.
My travel plans didn't allow me the luxury of delaying the application process, so I provided the damn number. Does anyone know the real rules for this situation? Must passports be cleared with the tax goons or do they just want to keep tabs on people travelling abroad?
I don't know the reason, but the IRS tax code requires that all passport applicants supply their SSNs to the IRS. The penalty for failing to notify is $500. I recently encountered this situation and just left the SSN blank. After explaining to the lady behind the counter that I was not required to give my SSN to the State Department, she eventually accepted the application without the SSN. I sent a letter to the IRS (address where tax returns are supposed to be sent) explainging the situation and included my SSN in the letter. I applied for the passport two months ago and have not been hassled by the IRS. A sample letter is at ftp.cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/ssn/passport.ps. There's also more about this in the SSN FAQ. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBM4tLwCzIPc7jvyFpAQGI0wf/UVlRi69bn6maj0uF35+GxE6ejT0fhp9w NvpXaTSwF+SjXGfROshUYOChsc75axNHXDvhzWVIC+MooY5IzJv3rZ6lBjN73kO1 WGq17xwtoVvSaMOW2CFspbhGNpM18UK7CkCm5ugGUD2lUIMztO9u4NQPgHIHHetX XTIxKd/SoQUTMzAFybRyUAtg4EKlhGLotMNNU7/xNlkCaTlgXRKTg2BPnrykhhHI Sxn/NVhpWnYjF2eJpKAIsf6eU/ElhVkXiQ7C4mQFdMNTP8wijBlIib1qI7M3h0lq ji2UDBxPOhNSwkMjO1O1wxgRs6Lvj0+YDPyjoWPifLddUImZ1vmw+w== =TvQx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:02 PM 5/27/97 -0400, Mark M. wrote:
I don't know the reason, but the IRS tax code requires that all passport applicants supply their SSNs to the IRS.
The Feds would like to keep track of and find expatriate Americans who don't file tax returns (some 60% of the total). Unlike almost all other countries, the U.S. taxes all of its citizens even those who have never set foot in America.
The penalty for failing to notify is $500. I recently encountered this situation and just left the SSN blank. After explaining to the lady behind the counter that I was not required to give my SSN to the State Department, she eventually accepted the application without the SSN. I sent a letter to the IRS (address where tax returns are supposed to be sent) explainging the situation and included my SSN in the letter. I applied for the passport two months ago and have not been hassled by the IRS. A sample letter is at ftp.cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/ssn/passport.ps. There's also more about this in the SSN FAQ.
Here's the US Code Section from http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/6039E.html UNITED STATES CODE TITLE 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE Subtitle F - Procedure and Administration CHAPTER 61 - INFORMATION AND RETURNS Subchapter A - Returns and Records PART III - INFORMATION RETURNS Subpart A - Information Concerning Persons Subject to Special Provisions § 6039E. Information concerning resident status (a) General rule Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any individual who - (1) applies for a United States passport (or a renewal thereof), or (2) applies to be lawfully accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States as an immigrant in accordance with the immigration laws, shall include with any such ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ application a statement which includes the ^^^^^^^^^^^ information described in subsection (b). (b) Information to be provided Information required under subsection (a) shall include - (1) the taxpayer's TIN (if any), (2) in the case of a passport applicant, any foreign country in which such individual is residing, (3) in the case of an individual seeking permanent residence, information with respect to whether such individual is required to file a return of the tax imposed by chapter 1 for such individual's most recent 3 taxable years, and (4) such other information as the Secretary may prescribe. (c) Penalty Any individual failing to provide a statement required under subsection (a) shall be subject to a penalty equal to $500 for each such failure, unless it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not to willful neglect. (d) Information to be provided to Secretary Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any agency of the United States which collects (or is required to collect) the statement under subsection (a) shall - (1) provide any such statement to the Secretary, and (2) provide to the Secretary the name (and any other identifying information) of any individual refusing to comply with the provisions of subsection (a). Nothing in the preceding sentence shall be construed to require the disclosure of information which is subject to section 245A of the Immigration and Nationality Act (as in effect on the date of the enactment of this sentence). (e) Exemption The Secretary may by regulations exempt any class of individuals from the requirements of this section if he determines that applying this section to such individuals is not necessary to carry out the purposes of this section. *************** It seems to say that the TIN (Taxpayer ID Number) has to accompany the application. In theory, State can't deny a passport based on refusal to supply the number but your mileage may vary. As far as we can determine, no one has ever been fined $500 by IRS. Looks like fodder for the sheeple to me. I'm reapplying this summer and will not rat on myself. We'll see how it goes. In the half dozen refusals to supply number that I am personally familiar with, the passport has never been refused. The report of a foreign address is a real laugh riot since US sheeple are not subject to address registration and can claim any address they like (although in that case, I guess they're not sheeple). DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 5.0 beta Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM4t9WoVO4r4sgSPhAQEfzwQAkYpLYOWSqjtGQhHXF2SWB2JKmSL6G625 LxmYK8OJ33ukK3dL569zFAZtD/adxn06XDTPVqkEU9Z51cDEfwTFX8qJaOY6zzNw 0gWXXvr7FHefuqrfRBDQT00uBD/WQgKHam9uxKVBW3lZ1QV+um3rvs3Iafg42yZ1 Wo+PyUP7I5g= =9hEF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 5:02 PM -0400 5/27/97, Mark M. wrote:
I don't know the reason, but the IRS tax code requires that all passport applicants supply their SSNs to the IRS. The penalty for failing to notify is $500. I recently encountered this situation and just left the SSN blank. After explaining to the lady behind the counter that I was not required to give my SSN to the State Department, she eventually accepted the application without the SSN. I sent a letter to the IRS (address where tax returns are supposed to be sent) explainging the situation and included my SSN in the letter. I applied for the passport two months ago and have not been hassled by the IRS. A sample letter is at ftp.cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/ssn/passport.ps. There's also more about this in the SSN FAQ.
Good for you, seriously, but you may not yet have heard the last of this. As with "frivolous returns" (such as writing comments on the tax forms submitted, arguing that taxes are not valid, etc.), it is not so much a matter of the IRS "hassling" you, as a computer-generated letter arriving stating that you now owe X amount in additional taxes, an amount which slowly grows with each passing month of doing nothing about it. I tried to not give my SS number to the California Department of Motor Vehicles, citing the line on my SS card which says quite clearly: "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES -- NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" (This is an exact quote, read from my 1968-9-issued card, which I still have.) Just which part of this do the folks in various government agencies not understand? The woman behind the desk didn't seem interested in my point and just said that without a valid SS number, no registration tags would be issued. It was then my choice to drive without tags (and get a ticket anytime a cop noticed this and decided to act on it) or seek some kind of legal restraining order (???, but probably $$$). But this has given me some ideas, which I'll share with you. With all the various companies and agencies demanding the SS number, why not demand SS number, mother's maiden name, date of birth, etc., for *all kinds* of casual things? If the agencies and companies are so cavalier about ignoring the clear stipulation that the SS card/number is *not* a general identification scheme, then it is very doubtful that asking people to supply all this sort of information is not violating any law. (If there's a law I could be charged with violating, I'd cite selective enforcement, noting that my local Mervyns store wanted my SS number a couple of days ago, the DMV wants SS numbers and other personal info, etc.) And since several of these numbers are essentially the keys to many security systems.... --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May wrote:
If the agencies and companies are so cavalier about ignoring the clear stipulation that the SS card/number is *not* a general identification scheme, then it is very doubtful that asking people to supply all this sort of information is not violating any law.
Tim, You may have a point regarding the government (state and federal) use of social security numbers. As for private entities, their use of SSNs is not regulated. They can ask you for one and you can refuse to give one out, and they can refuse to do business with you. They could, as well, ask for your mother's birthday or your penis size, or whatever. The things that they may not ask (in my understanding) are race and possibly some other protected things. I routinely refuse to give my SSN in stores when I write checks, and in some other situations. Typically, it causes a surprised look by a clerk and not much more, but from time to time I have to talk to their managers. This issue is discussed in (I think) alt.privacy FAQ. - Igor.
participants (5)
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frissell＠panix.com -
ichudov＠algebra.com -
Mark M. -
nobody＠hidden.net -
Tim May