Re: Know Your Net.Enemies Project
At 3:47 AM 4/11/96, Declan B. McCullagh wrote:
Would anyone be interested in collaborating on a "Know Your Net Enemies" project?
We'd start with a resource like Bob Chatelle's excellent web pages at <http://world.std.com/~kip/bcfenatl.html> and with permission build on it and list the deceptions and misrepresentations each Net-Enemy has engaged in -- what each has done to restrict liberty online. We'd include original documents and links as appropriate. ..
Sort of like Nixon's Enemies List? Have we become the enemy? Flippancy aside, this strikes me as being a terribly negative, destructive, and counterproductive way of approaching things. It could easily backfire in the media, as they note the "Enemies List," or "The Page of Shame." Recall how the recent "List of Shame" was reacted to, as some people clamored to be added. And just how would "Net-Enemies" be decided upon? By vote? By acclamation? By whomever wants to create an entry? Would Denning (Dorothy) be on the list, but not Denning (Peter)? How about Barlow? Maybe the whole EFF power structure at the time of the Wiretap Act should be added to the Net-Enemies list...I'll start working on this right away. Well, count me out. I know who I think are the people receptive to my concerns and viewpoints, and the people not receptive...and I don't need an Enemies List to tell me. I'd prefer to evaluate people I haven't yet reached a decision on based on their own merits. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Excerpts from cypherpunks: 11-Apr-96 Re: Know Your Net.Enemies P.. by Timothy C. May@got.net
Sort of like Nixon's Enemies List?
Have we become the enemy?
Tim, I thought that the "Enemies List" name would be seen as a deliberate takeoff of Nixon's Enemies List, and what I thought would be a humorous working title for the project until a permanent one was found. You may remember, BTW, that I don't have the power of the FBI to command. But since I was unclear and since the joke was ill-taken, I apologize. To be clear: I envision this as opposition research. In the context of the CDA, it was very useful to know what the family values groups were saying -- their arguments and their strategies. A central collection point for such research is a useful thing. Suggestions for a working title, anyone? -Declan
On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Declan B. McCullagh wrote:
Excerpts from cypherpunks: 11-Apr-96 Re: Know Your Net.Enemies P.. by Timothy C. May@got.net
Sort of like Nixon's Enemies List?
Have we become the enemy?
Tim, I thought that the "Enemies List" name would be seen as a deliberate takeoff of Nixon's Enemies List, and what I thought would be a humorous working title for the project until a permanent one was found. You may remember, BTW, that I don't have the power of the FBI to command.
But since I was unclear and since the joke was ill-taken, I apologize.
To be clear: I envision this as opposition research. In the context of the CDA, it was very useful to know what the family values groups were saying -- their arguments and their strategies. A central collection point for such research is a useful thing.
Suggestions for a working title, anyone?
Re-education prospects list.
-Declan
--- My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li "In fact, had Bancroft not existed, potestas scientiae in usu est Franklin might have had to invent him." in nihilum nil posse reverti 00B9289C28DC0E55 E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information
"MinTruth Personnel Office" Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
On Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Declan B. McCullagh wrote:
Excerpts from cypherpunks: 11-Apr-96 Re: Know Your Net.Enemies P.. by Timothy C. May@got.net
Sort of like Nixon's Enemies List?
Don't we already have a list of anti-crypto cypherpunks? That should definitely be added. I'll write the FUCKING STATIST section.
Have we become the enemy?
Tim, I thought that the "Enemies List" name would be seen as a deliberate takeoff of Nixon's Enemies List, and what I thought would be a humorous working title for the project until a permanent one was found. You may remember, BTW, that I don't have the power of the FBI to command.
But since I was unclear and since the joke was ill-taken, I apologize.
Cool. In retrospect, I understand that much of what you've been saying in the last couple months was intended ironically. At least you didn't say something really over-the-top like "fuck you and your high horse too." Someone might have taken offense.
To be clear: I envision this as opposition research. In the context of the CDA, it was very useful to know what the family values groups were saying -- their arguments and their strategies. A central collection point for such research is a useful thing.
I disagree. Anything that bundles together Canter & Siegel, the Family Research Council, the Church of Scientology, and overzealous prosecutors in Mannheim and Cincinatti is bound to be so all-encompassing and vague as to be meaningless. It's like discussing "the Internet Party." Be sure to talk about Usenet censorship at NIU, those censor-happy homosexuals at Harvard, those Stanford speech code prosecutions, the involvement of the Wiesenthal Center in the Zundelmatter, the theft of conservative newspapers at Stanford and elsewhere, the censorship of, in the News & Observer's words, an "unconventional view of the Holocaust" at UMAss Amherst, the censorship of soc.history.war.world-war-ii, the elusive Eric Carr, those violent threats against David Irving at Berkeley, the coverup of the number of bits in a byte, and other urban legends. Nonspecialist idealogues are dangerous. They tend to be sloppy with the facts. Look at Noam Chomsky; he's an embarrassment to any serious researcher on US interventionism in Latin America. -rich
participants (5)
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Adam Shostack -
Black Unicorn -
Declan B. McCullagh -
Rich Graves -
tcmay＠got.net