CU Crypto Session Sat
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- If old Sam gets his butt in gear, I should have a tape of the crypto session in Boulder yesterday to transcribe. Here's a brief report of the doings. Dr. Dorthy Denning of Georgetown University presented the escrowed encryption proposal. She was talking Boy Scouts and telephones, teaching kindergarten. Escrowed encryption was heinously soft peddled by Denning. The ramifications of escrowed encryption privacy violations by the intelligence communities was avoided during the initial presentation. She assured everyone that the FBI, with probable cause, would get a court order for the escrowed keys from NIST and DoJ. Rebutting was Phil Zimmerman, who was applauded when introduced as being under criminal investigation. Phil talked civil liberties, and some of the uses PGP was finding in countries not nearly as free from gov't intrusion as the United States. Phil brought up the point that intelligence agencies do not play by the same rules as the DoJ and FBI. Ken Klingenstein, CU director of comp. networking services, brought up the most interesting news to me. His perception of the DoD people he was in contact with was that they considered the escrowed encryption quagmire an NSA problem and were providing Klingenstein with helpful information. Denning had been nervous through out her presentation and response to the rebuttals of Phil and Ken. Again she avoided the issue of intelligence community intrusion, focusing on organized crime. I spoke to Denning briefly after the session. Eli Nixon, an investigator for the Zimmerman defense, and I proposed legalization for the drug problem. Denning sugested that organized crime would move into new territory in such an event. Slavery. (I found that rather anti-climactic after her dramatic measured pause for effect). Denning mentioned terrorists. I rebutted with satellite surviellance. I pointed out that we could read a poker hand via computer enhancement. This visibly shook her. Escrowed encryption is completely unnecessary, and she had no rebuttal for this. My information on satellite resolution came from a physicist who worked at JPL. I shook Dr. Denning's hand and wished her luck. She either reads everything I post, or was briefed beforehand. She was quite familiar with me. She couldn't believe I would discuss classified information on satellite resolution in casual conversation. The USAF hand in attendance was as smooth as sandpaper as well. As soon as I mentioned SDI, he shot over to evesdrop on the conversation I was having with Eli Nixon, et al. All and all, a fun time in Boulder. e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLbtGUl/ScHuGXWgVAQHlkAQAwl7sAz32H/zNxDUsPsy+LLEvGUCVScXY Zwr1oGpBqNYPVzDve46CvsissDpTH08MmQelfc+zwmdCjRP6sVzgNILhlsyLihTB Qfjh48sj40ESZnbJtj81k11SSaIBJJpDvlVsEWn4RDiP5aDgRnCKQ8hGxUZmGcCG q6dWYoH3DCc= =nGJZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- PGP PUBLIC KEY via finger! JAFEFFM Speaking & Thinking For Myself! * eagle@deeptht.armory.com email info@eff.org * *** O U T L A W S On The E L E C T R O N I C F R O N T I E R **** ***** Committed to Free Public Internet Access for World Peace *****
Denning mentioned terrorists. I rebutted with satellite surviellance. I pointed out that we could read a poker hand via computer enhancement. This visibly shook her. Escrowed encryption is completely unnecessary, and she
Some time ago I worked out the theoretical limits on spy satellite resolution. It's a simple exercise in optics, if you make optimistic assumptions like no atmospheric distortion, etc. My only major engineering assumption was that the objective mirror had to fit inside the payload fairing of a Titan launcher, i.e., about 2 meters max. The result, at visible wavelengths and for the slant ranges typical of spy satellite orbits, was about 1 foot. This was completely consistent with the leaked KH-11 photos of the Soviet aircraft carrier published some time back in AW&ST and Deep Black. Good, but not exactly good enough to read poker hands, I would say. Believe it or not, the laws of physics apply even to classified projects. Phil
Denning mentioned terrorists. I rebutted with satellite surviellance. I pointed out that we could read a poker hand via computer enhancement. This visibly shook her. Escrowed encryption is completely unnecessary, and she
Some time ago I worked out the theoretical limits on spy satellite resolution. It's a simple exercise in optics, if you make optimistic assumptions like no atmospheric distortion, etc. My only major engineering assumption was that the objective mirror had to fit inside the payload fairing of a Titan launcher, i.e., about 2 meters max. The result, at visible wavelengths and for the slant ranges typical of spy satellite orbits, was about 1 foot. This was completely consistent with the leaked KH-11 photos of the Soviet aircraft carrier published some time back in AW&ST and Deep Black. Good, but not exactly good enough to read poker hands, I would say.
Believe it or not, the laws of physics apply even to classified projects.
Phil
A much simpler, computationaly anyway, solution is to look at Hubble...
On Tue, 26 Apr 1994, Phil Karn wrote:
Some time ago I worked out the theoretical limits on spy satellite resolution. It's a simple exercise in optics, if you make optimistic assumptions like no atmospheric distortion, etc. My only major engineering assumption was that the objective mirror had to fit inside the payload fairing of a Titan launcher, i.e., about 2 meters max. The result, at visible wavelengths and for the slant ranges typical of spy satellite orbits, was about 1 foot. This was completely consistent with the leaked KH-11 photos of the Soviet aircraft carrier published some time back in AW&ST and Deep Black. Good, but not exactly good enough to read poker hands, I would say.
What do you get if you assume the largest mirror that can fit in the shuttle cargo bay? ++PLS
<<What do you get if you assume the largest mirror that can fit in the shuttle cargo bay?>> Mirrors could be sectional. Many mirrors can be joined together into a much larger mirror. Take a look at those put it together yourself model kits. Often the box is much smaller than the finished object. The mirror size is limited by the cargo bay, but it doesn't have to fit in the cargo bay when it is assembled. Consequently There could be more than one trip to catch the satelite and add more mirror segments to it. (Although this w would be very hard to accomplish, it isn't impossible... Take a pice of paper. Draw a circle. Draw another circle around it, etc.) Of course the camera would have to be built with the maximum mirror circumfrence/area in mind, but it can be done. Assuming that the satelite isn't too likely to get hit by debris, the mirror fragments could be made from some thin, flexible, light material so that many fragments can be carried out in space.. say some form of aluminum? or plastic? Anyone know about this?
Mirrors could be sectional. Many mirrors can be joined together into a much larger mirror. Take a look at those put it together yourself model kits.
Remember that when they're joined, they must maintain an accuracy of a small fraction of a wavelength to not spoil the results. I'm not saying this is impossible, only very, very difficult. Even for (especially for?) a well-funded black project. Phil
Phil Karn <karn@qualcomm.com> writes: [sat stuff and big mirrors...]
Mirrors could be sectional. Many mirrors can be joined together into a much larger mirror. Take a look at those put it together yourself model kits.
Remember that when they're joined, they must maintain an accuracy of a small fraction of a wavelength to not spoil the results.
They do not need to be joined. There already exist examples of "large" telescopes on the ground that combine the light received by multiple smaller mirrors into a single "synthetic image." The individual mirrors can be small for easy transportation and can be added over time to keep increasing the resolution... jim
They do not need to be joined. There already exist examples of "large"
Okay, "joined" in the sense that the light collected by each mirror must be added coherently to produce the final image. This coherent addition requires precise control of the phase of each component to a small fraction of a wavelength. This is hard. Someday there may be phased array antennas operating at optical wavelengths. Not yet. Phil
participants (6)
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Jeff Davis -
Jim choate -
Jim McCoy -
Paul Schauble -
Phil Karn -
rarachel＠prism.poly.edu