-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 28 Jul 1996 pjn@nworks.com wrote:

It is interesting to note that while both groups have opposite objectives (Hackers want all information free, where cypherpunks want everbody to be able to have privacy), and yet in there own ways, they are both right.

I don't entirely agree with this. I think both groups want information to be free, but also want people to be able to have privacy. Most hackers (used in the sense of people who break into computers) attack computers owned by such companies as TRW and the phone companies. Both of these systems have little regard for privacy. Most non-malicious hackers promote system security, but at the same time, don't like government-controlled monopolies and agencies to be able to keep secret information that should be free. A very interesting paper by Dorothy Denning (she used to be regarded very highly by the hacker community before she started to support Clipper) expresses some of the concerns and morals of hackers. It's called "Concerning Hackers Who Break Into Computer Systems" and is in Phrack issue 32.

I think what we need to define is the diffrence between hackers and crackers. A hacker breaks into a computer like a cracker (but the similarities end there). The hacker just want to look and learn, possably "map out" the system just to see how everything works with everything else. Crackers break into computers for the sake of destroying or stealing information or the system itself.

That's debatable. I think many people incorrectly consider these terms to be mutually exclusive. There are many hackers (used in the sense defined in the Jargon File) who also break into systems and could therefore be considered crackers also. Most hackers definitely have the knowledge to break into computer systems, but many crackers aren't very well versed in programming and learn how to break into computers by using canned programs and G-files.

Both cypherpunks and hackers think that the government is wrong in many things that they do.

Agreed. PGP encrypted mail prefered Key fingerprint = d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBMfu9sbZc+sv5siulAQHhCgP/UZ/HQ2e0jeyzuVv+zuMZux4A2gmrsgtY GcasxhtY9iD67fSjX5ujympfPtWEH7gtFjEVxasdbwpePaJhlKnZ0OpEGRsX3lZc 0PujC19M5U0GarGc0MUJrU0mpywch4bGPgr/hOBx0gOgnQZwmVVXwawN2te7rpb0 Ynej29oTTWQ= =RC2J -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----