Today at the Sun JAVA presenation in NYC.. Sun staff member Hal Stern who was talking about security mentioned Cypherpunks.. when talking about Thomas Jefferson saying roughly that Jefferson would be one if he was a live. He might read this list (Hi Hal!). Anyway he gave a good talk on securty and actually seemed to be aware of many of the issues. /hawk -- Harry Hawk Manager of Computer Services Warwick Baker & Fiore 212 941 4438 habs@warwick.com