Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
Forwarded message:
From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@invweb.net> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 20:27:22 -0500 Subject: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!!
I don't know if this story has reached the AP wire or not but today the brave defenders of the faith here in Pensacola, FL have done their sworn duty to protect us all by arresting a 5yr old on assault charges (againts one of the Adult staff of the school).
It made it to CNN.
These are the same brave soles who a few months ago when confronted by a man sitting in his car with a gun to his head solved this problem by riddeling his car, surrounding buildings, and a McDonalds playground with over 100 rounds.
As soon as I have some more information on this I will post a full report.
Their story was that the child had a behavioral problem and the parents refused to get counceling when the school requested. She apparently goes on room smashing temper tantrums on a regular basis. The father of the child said it was the most ludicrous thing he had ever heard of, reportedly. Can't say that changes the situation a heck of a lot though... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199802210309.VAA27046@einstein.ssz.com>, on 02/20/98 at 09:09 PM, Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> said:
Their story was that the child had a behavioral problem and the parents refused to get counceling when the school requested. She apparently goes on room smashing temper tantrums on a regular basis. The father of the child said it was the most ludicrous thing he had ever heard of, reportedly.
Well sounds like we are getting some CYA spindoctoring going on now that there is National Attention. None of the early reports had any mention of a cronic behavior problem. I posted the article from our local paper in a seperate post.
Can't say that changes the situation a heck of a lot though...
No not at all. We have some serious problems with the County Sherifs Department down here. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- <HTML><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type:text/html"> <SCRIPT> function X() {var Text = "HTML is not acceptable for using in mail " + "or usenet so your browser will stop."; alert(Text); parent.close();}; </SCRIPT> </HEAD><BODY onLoad="X();return true">Hi</HTML> Tag-O-Matic: If Windows sucked it would be good for something. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNO49e49Co1n+aLhhAQExhgP/S1zh7YQr0RRa9V3n7jMZnNZ8MJwCWVS5 lQAA7NPiWoZpGrD2LmWzA9QRCA+j0P7EnLzPT4o4e3h5Gby3z3PKv+xNtvZC0JY6 8h9DPqbz7m0V2l3RQnZXwopiDTVfO+//7G2x2x5V1QjKjouYBPnqhdTVfMglAtzF ZI4gCQEL2MU= =GvPe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 6:29 PM -0800 2/20/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
No not at all. We have some serious problems with the County Sherifs Department down here.
I'm having a hard time understanding all this criticism of the actions.
From what I've read, the girl bit, scratched, threw chairs, etc.
Many of us think 13- and 14-year-olds who commit murder should be executed (well, I do), so why should younger children be exempt from legal action? I know that if a kid was throwing chairs at me I'd be tempted to throw a punch back...something that is strictly verboten. Lawsuits, criminal prosecution, never work in the school system again, that sort of verboten. If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called. And from what I've heard about this little girl, it's beginning to sound like she ought to be put down like a dog that can't stop biting. Or at least kicked out of the school completely...perhaps a reform school will straighten her out. --Tim May Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^3,021,377 | black markets, collapse of governments.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <v03102807b1140738ade7@[207.167.93.63]>, on 02/20/98 at 08:30 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:
At 6:29 PM -0800 2/20/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
No not at all. We have some serious problems with the County Sherifs Department down here.
I'm having a hard time understanding all this criticism of the actions.
From what I've read, the girl bit, scratched, threw chairs, etc.
Many of us think 13- and 14-year-olds who commit murder should be executed (well, I do), so why should younger children be exempt from legal action?
Well I think that we have a large gap between a 5 year old little girl having a temper tantrum and a teanager gangbanger going and shooting people.
I know that if a kid was throwing chairs at me I'd be tempted to throw a punch back...something that is strictly verboten. Lawsuits, criminal prosecution, never work in the school system again, that sort of verboten.
Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you. A 5 year old though??
If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.
If a teacher can not subdue and control a 5 year old little girl without resorting to physical violence or calling in the storm troopers it's time to look for another line of work.
And from what I've heard about this little girl, it's beginning to sound like she ought to be put down like a dog that can't stop biting. Or at least kicked out of the school completely...perhaps a reform school will straighten her out.
When have you ever been so quick to blindly believe the spindoctoring of the government Tim? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- <HTML><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type:text/html"> <SCRIPT> function X() {var Text = "HTML is not acceptable for using in mail " + "or usenet so your browser will stop."; alert(Text); parent.close();}; </SCRIPT> </HEAD><BODY onLoad="X();return true">Hi</HTML> Tag-O-Matic: Have you crashed your Windows today? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNO7i7I9Co1n+aLhhAQGCQgQAtKNhMFDKgk3Mxw7HbZv8aWAX0D50mola dnJcEIqa/qtgoXhRt0jnGUZa8ilz6yHtZX78KlDv4KY4ps78bb/JKroLFG7Nfyg6 xVmzwGVLqRxRxC10LA7BIlive9ulaY6/diysNdRkFlgWYTuSzqUxt2dP+FCYH5p4 8mpGKRZ7mI0= =YxPX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 6:13 AM -0800 2/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you. A 5 year old though??
If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.
If a teacher can not subdue and control a 5 year old little girl without resorting to physical violence or calling in the storm troopers it's time to look for another line of work.
My sister teaches Kindergarten/first grade in the LA County School District, specifically, Inglewood (shudder). She is forbidden to: - physically touch the children in any way - discipline them in any meaningful way - flunk them if they fail to behave or learn what is supposedly required ("Flunking Kindergarten" is tough, so where this rule really become significant is in the higher grades, where all kids are promoted, even those who can't read, can't add, etc.) My sister says the teachers have zero power to do anything, and the kids know it.
When have you ever been so quick to blindly believe the spindoctoring of the government Tim?
Spare me the casual insults. I call things as I see them. I've heard no spin-doctoring, just reports of the child's behavior, admitted by her father. --Tim May Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^3,021,377 | black markets, collapse of governments.
I call things as I see them. I've heard no spin-doctoring, just reports of the child's behavior, admitted by her father.
So one temper-tantrum by a 5 year old and its off to the BigHouse on Felony Assault Charges??
From the sound if it; this was not "one tantrum", but a pattern of behavior that the parents failed to address after being requested to do so.
Would you want your children class with another child who repeatedly went into room-smashing rages with no appearant consequences for such behavior??? Sounds like the parents failed to "get around to" the counseling, and the school forced the issue.
It occurs to me that society has been restructured so that "the authorities" are the only ones permitted to fix many sorts of commonly-encountered problems which individual citizens used to be able to take care of themselves. Like spanking a spoiled 5 year old child instead of charging her with a felony. Further, said authorities have great and arbitrary powers to fix things however they want. Combine this regular dependence on arbitrary authority with an Orwellian database of Good Citizens and Troublemakers in the hands of that authority and what have you got? A cowed citizenry, to say the least. bd On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:
At 6:13 AM -0800 2/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you. A 5 year old though??
If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.
etc.
At 10:11 PM -0800 2/21/98, Brad wrote:
It occurs to me that society has been restructured so that "the authorities" are the only ones permitted to fix many sorts of commonly-encountered problems which individual citizens used to be able to take care of themselves. Like spanking a spoiled 5 year old child instead of charging her with a felony. Further, said authorities have great and arbitrary powers to fix things however they want.
Combine this regular dependence on arbitrary authority with an Orwellian database of Good Citizens and Troublemakers in the hands of that authority and what have you got? A cowed citizenry, to say the least.
I don't disagree with the larger point. The solution is the one libertarians have argued for for many years: provide choice in schools. Then a school could pick and choose its pupils, and vice versa. But with the system as it stands now, a child who throws chairs, bites, kicks, and whatnot needs to be dealt with. One of the very few legitimate functions of a government is police action. Against assaults, by assaulters of whatever age. While we may think it is "ludicrous" for the police to be called in, consider the alternative. Is the teacher supposed to allow herself to be hit over the head with chairs, even if wielded by 5-year-olds? The system is fucked up, to be sure. But automatically arguing that the school should not have called in the police given the constraints they are under is foolish. --Tim May Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^3,021,377 | black markets, collapse of governments.
Tim May writes:
And from what I've heard about this little girl, it's beginning to sound like she ought to be put down like a dog that can't stop biting. Or at least kicked out of the school completely...perhaps a reform school will straighten her out.
In other Florida news, a 23 year old female daycare worker picked up a kitchen knife and stabbed a mother to death, after the mother complained that the worker had hit and pinched her 5 year old son. We don't really know what the counselor said or did to this 5 year old girl before the biting started, and given the anti-youth bias of the mainstream press, we are unlikely to find out. Even if some horrendous tale of harrassment by school staff emerges, it will simply be suggested that they were "disciplining" her for her "behavior problem." Now she may have a legitimate problem, and may have started biting and scratching in response to the counselor saying - "Good morning. You look lovely today." Then again.... It is rarely useful to take things like this at face value, especially given the spin control talents of school administrators and the teachers union. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
participants (6)
-
Brad -
Eric Cordian -
Jim Choate -
Rabid Wombat -
Tim May -
William H. Geiger III