Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #13 (fwd)
Here is a forward of the CFD where PGP was mentionned. I posted several
off-topic messages to the CFD, to introduce theses peoples to encryption,
digital signatures, e$, etc. For thoses who are curious about firearms
related politics in Kanada, this it *the* forum for it. Take note that
the Allan Rock discussed in the various posts is the former Canada Justice
Minister, now Canada Health Minister, who fanatically drafted and
frantically pushed bill C-68, the gun registration bill. Just so you
know, now, in Kanada, simple possession of *any* firearms or some other
weapons *is* a crime passible of 14 year of imprisonement, *unless* you get
a permit that, in effect, waive that crime. Of course,
they say that they make it
simple and reasonable to get it, but what the authorities want is to
disamr the population. Recently, they did not even shy out at saying it
explicitely. Among their plans, the outright confiscation without
compensation of a great number of now Verboten types of firearms.
And you thought that the Kool Komrades were very far from you...
JFA
PGP key at w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon or at the MIT key server.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:03:08 -0600
From: Cdn-Firearms Digest
then what the government should do is to totally outlaw the private ownership of all handguns, semi-automatic, and automatic weapons. Such weapons should be reserved for the police and military alone. Someone once said that rifles were designed for hunting and, thereby, putting food on the table, but handguns were designed for one purpose and one purpose only: to kill people. The same goes for automatic weapons and assault rifles. So get rid of them altogether (and to hell with the target shooters - let them use air pistols!).
"Automatic weapons" are machine guns, i.e. they are "fully automatic"
(can fire many rounds with one trigger squeeze). "Assault rifles" are
machine guns (of a specific type).
There are 4500 Canadians who may own registered machine guns, and do.
There has never been a registered machine gun used in a crime or
suicide by its owner. I've never found an incident of one being stolen
and used.
So why ban them?
There are one million registered pistols, used safely every year. Less
than five are involved in a homicide each year, including justifiable
homicides. More than 80% of the 600 annual homicides do not involve a
pistol, let alone a registered pistol.
So why ban them?
If I can be trained and trusted to own use a car/chainsaw/airplane/
whatever safely, I should be able to be trained and trusted to own and
use _any_ kind of firearm safely. Period.
What's more dangerous: Using a gun at a range or flying an aircraft
over a city?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:16:32 -0600 (CST)
From: SBKracer
Claire Hoy has a good column on "Free Speech" in this week's The Hill Times.
AND while you're there, take time to read:
Plan to introduce bills in Senate sparks fury
in government and opposition benches.
It's sometimes kind of scarry how our democratic government subtly
attempts to circumvent democracy.
[sometimes?... -- Skeeter]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:47:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Juha Askola
[Moderator: This may or may not be "official policy." Without knowing the context or the original author it is difficult to evaluate. HTB]
[snip]
This particular document is by far the scariest federal gun control document I have ever seen. In short it outlines stategies for gun confiscation and prohibition orders for gun owning citizens and the general disarmament of the populace.
[snip]
Even if this document is a complete fake, which we have no way of
finding out, it is very possible something similar is in the works.
Just look at UK and Australia!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:49:33 -0600 (CST)
From: someone@inter.net
Subject: Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) www.pgp.com
In previous issues of the CFD, the issues of using and the governments'
attempts to restrict the use of Pretty Good Privacy encryption software
(www.pgp.com) was discussed and compared to restricting the use of
firearms.
I noticed a lot of users of this list have their PGP fingerprint
attached to their message, which is great. However, a lot of people
are reluctant to use PGP because it was difficult to use and install.
For those using Eudora (16-bit or 32-bit), PGP Inc. has a special offer
to have a full version of PGP 5.0 for Eudora plug-in, which supports
both RSA and DSS/DH algorithm, for US$5 (five dollars). Personally, I
think it is money well spent, with governments creeping up on us, you
never know when you HAVE TO encrypt all your email.
Go to www.pgp.com for more details.
I'm in no way shape or form related to PGP Inc, Qualcomm, or anyone who
might benefit from the sale of PGP or Eudora. I'm just an immigrant to
this great country and would love to preserve the freedom we enjoy.
[Also visit the PGP resources listed under "Freedom sites" at the
cdn-firearms home page. http://cdn-firearms.ml.org/ -- Skeeter]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:51:02 -0600 (CST)
From: "Geoff Stokes"
From the article entitled: Call Threatens Foundation of Canadian Life.
"Two weeks ago I received a thinly veiled threat from someone who is
either a policeman or somehow connected with the police...Then it
became clear that it was the very idea that a pion like me would dare
meddle with the RCMP...Finally, he said, If you start messing around
with the big boys, you're going to get an education in life...the fact
that most people believe that the police, the ones who are supposed to
protect us, are capable of the kind of harassment and intimidation that
my anonymous caller alluded to...To date, I'm happy to report that
there have been no unexplained searches of my vehicle, no funny clicks
on my phone and nothing to suggest that I am anyone's particular
target...But I don't even like thinking that those things are a
possibility, not in this country."
hmmmm..., sounds an awful lot like what it may be like under Bill C-68
concerning increased police discretion; or how an uncooperative,
non-complier may be treated in future..., or am I really going
paranoid??
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:21:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Skeeter Abell-Smith"
From: SBKracer
[The moderator wrote: This may or may not be "official policy." Without knowing the context or the original author it is difficult to evaluate. HTB]
Sunday at a gunshow in Cow Town I got a copy of a news letter containing a Federal document on gun control dated 1977. This document had been e-mailed by
.
The excerpt printed in digest number 10 (volume 2) was scary, but I think
the one below is worse.
___________________________________________________________________
As regards the Police Function in Canada, prior to passage of
the foregoing it was the opinion of the administrations:
1. That in face of mass civil disobedience the use of Force had
limited capabilities....
2. That in face of mass civil disobedience any display of
available Force would not have credibility....
....as far as an armed and organized Public was concerned and
it was felt in the interests of the Function that it was
desirous to ensure the Public be discretely but effectively
disarmed over a period of the forthcoming 5 years.
The foregoing is not entirely the opinion of the
administrations of the Function, but is one which has been
voiced generally even at the rank and file level...that being
that the absence of firearms in the hands of the Public in
general would increase the safety of a Patrolmans work.
With the passage of the Firearms Section of the Criminal Code
of Canada Amendments, having been predetermined that in regards
to the Functions ability as a Control and Enforcement Agency
there was:
1. A lack of personnel suitably indoctrinated at specific
assignment levels and sectors within the proposed Control
Structure.
2. A requirement for the adequate indoctrination and training
time,
3. A requirement for time to phase in the various levels and
sectors of the proposed Control Structure independently of one
and another in a manner which would not create alarm, nor allow
premature rapport.
4. A requirement for time to nullify the credibility of
alarmists and dissenters.
___________________________________________________________________
This document was obtained from MP Peter Elzinga. I had been faxed a copy
back in 1994, but the source was "unknown". We may never know if
it was/is for real...
read it all in Cdn-Firearms Digest V1 #860
http://cdn-firearms.ml.org/cdn-firearms/Digests/v01n800-899/v01n860
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:15:14 -0600 (CST)
From: dcmiller@mail.island.net (douglas c miller)
Subject: antique guns
I think the Dave's answer in regard to the antique guns in digest V2
#12 was a little weak. My first objection is that an 1864 Enfield
MkII* is probably a Snider Enfield and as such would be .58 caliber and
I very much doubt that it would be found in .303. I think that Dave is
mistaking it for a Martini Enfield. His second comment re Winchesters
would have been far more accurate if he had stated Winchester
repeaters/carbines came in the following models. The model 1885 is a
single shot in high wall and low wall models and I don't believe would
ever have been referred to as a saddle ring carbine.
What is perhaps more instructive of the questions posed is the error or
risk of registering one's own guns as illustrated by the owner who
works in or in conjunction with a museum appears to have made at least
one descriptive mistake.
Just my $.02 worth
D.C. Miller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:54:14 -0600 (CST)
From: jean hogue
I am an archaeologist by profession and work for the **************** government. ... On the other hand, if there is really that great a concern over public safety (as opposed to the amount of revenue that can be generated by this punitive registration/licensing system), then what the government should do is to totally outlaw the private ownership of all handguns, semi-automatic, and automatic weapons. Such weapons should be reserved for the police and military alone.
I think Dave's reply to this was far too polite.
Yet another case where this quote by Pastor Martin Niemoller is so
appropriate:
"In Germany they first came for the communists and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a communist. They came for the Jews
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came
for the trade Unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
a trade Unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't
speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and
by that time no one was left to speak up."
Just under what logic does this government archaeologist justify
banning the best-behaved guns in the country ? Several thousands (I
believe 5,000) automatic weapons were lawfully registered before 1979
by non-military, non-police law-abiding citizens. Not a single one has
ever been involved in a crime of violence.
As for automatic weapons being reserved strictly to the police and
military, two things:
1- the only two cases of homicides committed with automatic
weapons legally registered were:
a) military: Corporal Lortie killed three in the
Quebec National Assembly (provincial
govm't) -- 1985 or 1986;
b) police: in Rock Forest, police fired a burst
from an Uzi, through the motel room door,
killing a labourer police mistakenly
assumed to be the hold-up suspect they were
looking for -- early 1980's.
2- the government archaeologist sounds just like Allan "Alibi Al"
Rock:
"I came to Ottawa with the firm belief that the only
people in this country who should have guns are police
officers and soldiers."
Allan Rock, Canada's previous Minister of Justice
Maclean's "Taking Aim on Guns", April 25, 1994, p 12
Pay attention to the man behind the curtain. A recent "study" by police
of guns recovered at crime scenes "concluded" that "legal" guns (they
meant unrestricted) were used in crime far more often than handguns and
evil semi-automatic "assault" rifles. The government archaeologist's
toys are deemed by police to be even more dangerous than the toys being
condemned by the archaeologist.
I have really lost patience for this mentality of throwing off "wolf
meat" from the dogsleigh to escape the wolves. The archaeologist is
simply advocating that the gun owner community sell off owners of
handguns and semi-automatics so that people like the archaeologist can
be left alone with their more politically-correct toys. All this based
on nothing more than an _iffy_ "concern".
Thanks for the back-stabbing and dream on! As Max Headroom said: with
friends like these, who needs an oenema?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:55:47 -0600 (CST)
From: dons@Cadabratech.com (Don Shesnicky)
Subject: Re: More Moronic Ramblings
Here's an interesting story along this theme...
I caught this one on CBC radio two days ago while driving into work. It
was an excerpt from something that, I believe it was Martin Bell from
the BBC, said during a book presentation in Ottawa. He stated something
to the effect that the media could never be detached from the stories
they covered. As an example he put forth this story, which was said to
be true and which I will put into my own words:
It seems that a reporter visiting Bosnia wanted to do a story
on snipers. A Bosnian commander told him to go with one of his
snipers. They crawled into place and after the sniper took a
look out onto a street told the reporter to take a peek and tell
him what he saw. After looking the reporter said he could see two
civilians standing in the street. The sniper asked him which one
should die. The reporter realizing that he suddenly didn't want
to be there explained at length to the sniper that he didn't
want either of them to die. As he turned to go he heard two shots.
He turned back to the sniper who said "Too bad, you could have
saved one of them".
Powerful story.
Don
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:20:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Skeeter Abell-Smith"
and an 1885 Winchester saddle-ring carbine w/octagonal barrel in very fine condition.
Winchesters went through Models 1873, to 1876, to 1886, to 1892, to 1894. Which do you have, and in what calibre? There is no Model 1885.
I got stuck with one of them fake model 1885 too. I guess I should of
been more suspicious when the guy who sold it to me kept referring to
it as a "High Wall". Sure is pretty. but i ain't worked out yet how do
I load the magazine.
Gerald Griffith
" The easiest thing in the world to
achieve is the effective disapproval of
any sort of uncritically vested authority. "
< Alexander King >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:05:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "David A. Tomlinson"
participants (1)
-
Jean-Francois Avon