Well, since everyone seems to be talking about Dorothy Denning, I just thought I'd throw a few things out for discussion. Number 1, if someone is an encryption expert (as has been truly/falsely(?) claimed on this list), then why would they endorse anyone but the recipient being able to decode the message? Wouldn't the true belief in privacy be what would lead one to learn about such things? Or is it just a toy, as is surveillance? Number 2. People on this list have said that she's an expert in cryptography. When I read that damned Newsday article posted on cypherpunks, I thought that she was just a whiny college bitch. The argument was just very, well, flimsy is the word I guess. I believe that Clipper is wrong, but someone could at least write a paper that would influence more by pointing out its merits, rather than just saying that the government should start spying on all of us to stop drug deals.... Anyone know: A) Is she an expert in cryptography? B) Is she a college graduate? C) Was she dropped on her head a lot as a baby? D) Has she considered the alternatives that suicide offers? Just kind of annoyed at this whole Big Brother thing, probably because I'm reading 1984 right now... really a good idea if you haven't yet, and if you read it, they're is no way you'll possibly think that Clipper is a good idea... Also, I've gotten a message through to Ross Perot about our fight against Clipper, and how to reach me, so if I get a response, I'll let you guys know. Anthony
Anthony Ortenzi wrote:
Number 2. People on this list have said that she's an expert in cryptography. When I read that damned Newsday article posted on cypherpunks, I thought that she was just a whiny college bitch. The argument was just very, well, flimsy is the word I guess. I believe that Clipper is wrong, but someone could at least write a paper that would influence more by pointing out its merits, rather than just saying that the government should start spying on all of us to stop drug deals....
Not to mention that she obviously doesn't keep up with current events. The part about the world trade center made me laugh. Here it is again for those of you who missed it: Opponents say that terrorists will not be so foolish as to use encryption to which the government holds the key but will scramble their calls with their own code systems. But then who would have thought that the World Trade Center bombers would have been stupid enough to return a truck that they had rented? Maybe it was just a bad miswording, but it certainly doesn't strengthen the argument as a whole, and doesn't give me much confidence in her proofreading ability. (They didn't return the truck, they put a bomb in the truck, it got destroyed, then the idiot tried to claim that the truck had been stolen, and demanded his deposit back.) Dorothy Denning may have a college education, but she is a bit lacking in social awareness. She is just a pawn that the NSA is using as a spokesperson so that they don't have to take the heat from the debate over clipper.
Anyone know:
A) Is she an expert in cryptography?
B) Is she a college graduate?
C) Was she dropped on her head a lot as a baby?
D) Has she considered the alternatives that suicide offers?
The "Dr." in "Dr. Dorothy Denning" should answer question B. Note also that she's the chair of the CS dept at Georgetown; such positions are not usually given to those without college degrees. The answer to question A is somewhat more subjective. I know enough about cryptography to know that I am NOT an expert in cryptography. And that means I know much more about cryptography than most people -- if you follow my meaning. Although Dr. Denning has written a highly regarded college textbook on cryptography, I have not seen anything to demonstrate her expertise in designing a cipher and evaluating it against attack. This is a far more arcane talent, one shared by a relative handful of people. It should not be confused with the ability to apply existing ciphers to various problems, a skill that she clearly possesses, along with many other people. This is why I questioned her inclusion on the clipper review committee, as opposed to, say, Ernie Brickell, whose destruction of the knapsack public key cryptosystem gives him the kind of actual experience in cryptanalysis that is essential in such a review. As for your other questions, I suggest that the case against Clipper is strong enough that we do not need to resort to ad-hominem attacks against individuals such as Dr. Denning. I agree that she is, at best, seriously misguided, but it is not that uncommon for otherwise intelligent people to disagree seriously on politics. Remember that her technical credentials, whatever they may be, gives her no special insight over the rest of us into the purely political issues here. Don't get mad, get even. Write code! Phil
Dr. Denning is a secure systems (OS and databases) research from SRI. Her background is in capability-based OS (her advisor was MUTICS designer Peter Denning, whom she married) and inference of private data from statistical data bases. Her work is interesting and potentially contributes to our privacy, but has little direct connection to cryptanalysis. Phil's objection seems quite reasonable. I recall a profile of the Dr's Denning in one of the popular cracker/phreax exposes, (maybe in Markov/Hafner?) Andy
participants (4)
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Andrew Purshottam -
Anthony D Ortenzi -
Matthew J Ghio -
Phil Karn