Re: Enemies R Us [Political Rant]

These are organized groups of militias, white supremacists, neo-Nazis- skinheads, survivalists and constitutionalists who are connected to each other with increasing frequency by the Internet, fax machines and a shared belief in Christian Identity, a renegade religious concept that. proclaims whites to be God's chosen people, Jews to be descendants of Satan and blacks to be subhuman.
These views are shared by only a small minority of the patriot movement. This paragraph is pure propaganda. There are some of these people in the patriot community, but their percentages are not much higher than in the general population.
At the same time, however, as Federal agencies proceed with traditional means of intelligence gathering (as in the Unabomber case), and Congress ponders a new anti-terrorism bill (stalled by the gun lobby and civil libertarians), efforts to fight domestic terrorism are being supplemented more than ever by private human rights organizations that track the fringe right with their own networks. They willingly share information with law enforcement agencies, branches of the military and reporters.
If Federal LEO's are getting so much help from volunteer snitches, why do we need the anti-terrorism bull? :)
Federal law enforcement agencies, which were heavily criticized for their actions in fatal controntations in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Tex., appear to be trying a new, more patient approach in waiting for a peaceful solution to the current standoff with the anti-government group called the Freemen in eastern Montana. They have been criticized this time, largely by neighbors of the Freeman and local officials, for waiting so long to get involved, and for waiting at all.
Don't wait. Act precipitously. Burn all the [insert disliked individuals/groups here]. Oh, wait. Isn't that what Hitler did?
Most of the human rights organizations were actively campaigning against racism and anti-Semitism long before the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995 and the arrest of two suspects with links to militia groups. And with many of the right-wing groups now hiding racist views beyond a more acceptable veneer of anti-government oratory, the human rights groups say the need to collect information has become that much more critical.
There is NO clearly established connection between McVeigh and ANY militia group. This notion is more government propaganda.
At least two of them -- the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., and the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles -- use undercover operatives. Both organizations had spies attend a convention last weekend in Lake Tahoe that attracted hundreds of Christian Identity followers to hear a speech by Randy Weaver, the white separatist whose wife and son were killed three years ago in a siege by Federal agents in Ruby Ridge.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has computer files of more than 12,000 people identified as members of a far-right group. The Wiesenthal Center operates an extensive electronic tracking station, where researchers monitor television, cable and radio shows all over the world for racist and anti-Semitic content.
I find it ironic that the SPLC is run by far-left radicals of the type who did a lot of bitching in the 60's when their ox was being gored. (Does anyone remember COINTELPRO?) The Wiesenthal center is actively supporting legislation (the anti-terror bill, various gun control bills, etc.) that would give our gov't many of the same powers Hitler had, which he eventually used against the Jews. Those who refuse to learn from history will be condemned to repeat it.
When the Army recently conducted an internal investigation to learn how many soldiers were involved with skinhead groups, senior officers at the Pentagon twice conferred with Wiesenthal Center officials, and when Patrick J. Buchanan was running for the Republican Presidential nomination, they produced names of Buchanan supporters who once worked for David Duke, a former Ku Klux Klan member, or had affiliation with the National Association for the Advancement of White People.
About 3 in all, if I recall the news reports correctly. This "KKK people support Buchanan so Buchanan is bad" idea is fatuous liberal propaganda. If one were to poll the members of North American Man-Boy Love Association, a majority of them would probably support Clinton, because of his policy of loosening restrictions on "alternate lifestyles." However, I have yet to see any demonization of Clinton on this basis anywhere. (Not that I think it would be justified, mind you.) BTW, if the "advancement" of people on the basis of skin color is racist, then the NAACP, La Raza, et al, should be put out of business as well as the KKK and the National Association for the Advancement of White People. [B.S. snipped]
Now, Dees and his colleagues at the Southern Poverty Law Center have again warned the Attorney General about the danger posed by the antigovernment "Patriot" movement. In an April 9, 1996 letter, Dees urged Reno to take concrete steps to counter the threat of further domestic terrorism. He also provided her with a copy of *False Patriots*, the Center's new report on the "Patriot" movement. This 72-page expose is the culmination of a Center investigation into the "Patriot" movement conducted since the Oklahoma City bombing.
United By Hate
The "Patriot" movement encompasses numerous elements of the American right, from certain Christian fundamentalists to the Ku Klux Klan. It includes tax protesters, survivalists and neo-Nazis, as well as radical anti-environmentalists and gun enthusiasts. The tie that binds those in the movement, estimated by some at five million strong, is a virulent hatred of the federal government.
The 5 million figure is low. The NRA had almost that many members last I heard, and most of them are not survivalists, tax protestors, or neo-Nazis. Gun enthusiast == virulent hatred of government? More propaganda...
This hatred has been fueled in recent years by the passage of gun control legislation, the deaths of Randy Weaver's wife and son at the hands of federal agents on Ruby Ridge in Idaho, and the disastrous federal assault on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco.
Shooting and burning people without a compelling reason for doing so pisses people off, and lowers public confidence in the agencies doing the shooting and burning. What is so radical about that?
The False Patriots report reveals the people behind the "Patriot" movement, people like Louis Beam, a key Aryan Nations leader, and Pete Peters, a pastor of the bizarre Christian Identity faith.
Beam may be a poo-bah in the Aryan Nations, but most "partiots" find his views revolting. This is another example of using an atypical aberration as an excuse for demonizing an entire group. I have yet to see a major news organization use the Unabomber to demonize radical leftist environmental extremists in this way, but the comparison would be far more truthful the ones made here. [Anti-patriot B.S. snipped]
Since the Oklahoma City tragedy, numerous "Patriot" terrorist plots have been discovered, including plans to poison federal employees in Minnesota and conspiracies to blow up a federal courthouse in Spokane and an IRS building in Reno. An AmTrak train was derailed by a group calling itself "Sons of the Gestapo."
Which turned out to have been done by a disgruntled former railroad employee who left the "sons of gestapo" note as a red herring. Could you at least stick to propaganda that has at least some basis in fact?
Over ten tons of explosives have been stolen from various locations around the country in the past year. Authorities suspect a large quantity has made its way into the "Patriot" movement. In December, a survivalist was arrested in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas and charged with terrorism. He had produced 130 grams of the deadly poison ricin, enough to kill thousands.
Explosives thefts are nothing new. Regulation of explosive materials is. Explosives and poisons can be made out of commonly available materials. If this is such a problem, how come this country wasn't bombed and poisoned into oblivion 50 years ago?
Secret Cells Formed
From California to Florida, "Patriots" are forming cells of five to ten men skilled in explosives, sniper fire, sabotage and terrorism. These secret cells operate without a chain of command to avoid compromising the larger movement. One cell recently uncovered in Idaho is financed by a wealthy businessman. These cells, like the one McVeigh is suspected of forming, are difficult to monitor and can strike when least expected.
Another unsubstantiated insinuation that McVeigh is a militia/patriot/skinhead type.
What You Can Do To Help Stop Domestic Terrorism
[Snip]
Find out if your state has anti-militia and anti-paramilitary training statutes. If the answer is "Yes," insist that the laws be enforced. If "No," urge the attorney general's office to work for passage of such laws.
+ Support federal legislation to outlaw militia groups that are not authorized by state law
These groups operate as a springboard for dangerous antigovernment activity.
Yes, throw out the second amendment. The government can control people much more easily when they are helpless...
+ Learn about the "Patriot" movement and share your knowledge with others
Absolutely, yes, hallelujah, preach it brother! You might want to chesk out other sources than the SPLC, however. The best way to find out what views an organization holds is to directly contact the organization, rather than a member of the opposition with an axe to grind.
The "Patriot" movement thrives on secrecy and citizen apathy.
So does government tyranny and oppression. [B.S. deleted]
The Militia Task Force is leading the fight to expose the "Patriot" movement and protect those injured in hate crimes. The Center's Militia Task Force and its Klanwatch Project monitor "Patriot" groups, especially those with racist ties.
Yes, concentrate on the skinheads and other kooks. That way, you can tar everyone else with the same stick... [SPLC fund-raising crap deleted]
A copy of the latest official registration statement and financial report filed by the Souther Poverty Law Center may be obtained by contacting Office of Charities Registration, 162 Washington Avenue, Albany, NY 12231.
I find it disgusting that a radical left-wing propaganda outlet like the SPLC can legally call itself a "charity." Jonathan Wienke

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [I've done my best to make this somewhat relevant, and to ignore most of the obvious trolls.] On Sun, 14 Apr 1996 JonWienke@aol.com responded to an anonymous troll:
At the same time, however, as Federal agencies proceed with traditional means of intelligence gathering (as in the Unabomber case), and Congress ponders a new anti-terrorism bill (stalled by the gun lobby and civil libertarians), efforts to fight domestic terrorism are being supplemented more than ever by private human rights organizations that track the fringe right with their own networks. They willingly share information with law enforcement agencies, branches of the military and reporters.
If Federal LEO's are getting so much help from volunteer snitches, why do we need the anti-terrorism bull? :)
We don't. Not that the "volunteer snitches" are anywhere near as important ans they think they are. Most LEO types will just blow them off, because there isn't probable cause. Where the private orgs come into play is *after* some wacko goes postal, and the government wants expert witnesses. This raises some interesting questions about the power of private data collection and data havens, though. There is something to be said for the rule of law. At least the government is somewhat accountable, and will always be "infiltrated" by professional bureaucrats who care about human rights. Private organizations are more ideologically coherent and less likely to open their affairs to public scrutiny.
Most of the human rights organizations were actively campaigning against racism and anti-Semitism long before the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995 and the arrest of two suspects with links to militia groups. And with many of the right-wing groups now hiding racist views beyond a more acceptable veneer of anti-government oratory, the human rights
The more I get into this, the more backwards this sounds. As a FUCKING STATIST, I'm a lot more comfortable with certain racists than with anti-government zealots of any political persuasion. This assumes, of course, that the racists lack sufficient power to put their genocidal ideas into practice.
At least two of them -- the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., and the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles -- use undercover operatives. Both organizations had spies attend a convention last weekend in Lake Tahoe that attracted hundreds of Christian Identity followers to hear a speech by Randy Weaver, the white separatist whose wife and son were killed three years ago in a siege by Federal agents in Ruby Ridge.
"Undercover operatives" is much too maudlin. I went under my own name, said hello to a few folks. Weaver is a fucking lunatic, but the skiing was good.
Since the Oklahoma City tragedy, numerous "Patriot" terrorist plots have been discovered, including plans to poison federal employees in Minnesota and conspiracies to blow up a federal courthouse in Spokane and an IRS building in Reno. An AmTrak train was derailed by a group calling itself "Sons of the Gestapo."
Which turned out to have been done by a disgruntled former railroad employee who left the "sons of gestapo" note as a red herring. Could you at least stick to propaganda that has at least some basis in fact?
This is news to me. What's your source for this?
Explosives thefts are nothing new. Regulation of explosive materials is. Explosives and poisons can be made out of commonly available materials. If this is such a problem, how come this country wasn't bombed and poisoned into oblivion 50 years ago?
50 years ago, American citizens of Japanese descent were just being let out of "internment camps," and the State of Mississippi was keeping files on 87,000 "political subversives" -- never mind the FBI. I'm not a big fan of the bad, old days. 30 and 76 years ago, many parts were bombed. Berkeley. Ronald Reagan. Sacco & Vanzetti. Eugene Debs. Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer. Forget everything you've ever been told about "right" and "left"; it's the same people, really, fighting for the same things, mostly.
+ Learn about the "Patriot" movement and share your knowledge with others
Absolutely, yes, hallelujah, preach it brother! You might want to chesk out other sources than the SPLC, however. The best way to find out what views an organization holds is to directly contact the organization, rather than a member of the opposition with an axe to grind.
You're joking, right? To learn what the Church of Scientology is really about, see http://www.theta.com/ To learn what Watergate was really about, visit the Nixon Presidential Library. To learn what the IRA is really about, talk to Gerry Adams. To learn what the Cuban Revolution is really about, talk to Castro or your local "Pastors for Peace" propagandist. No, the only way to learn about an organization is to JOIN IT. You should see the mail I'm getting now.
I find it disgusting that a radical left-wing propaganda outlet like the SPLC can legally call itself a "charity."
Don't worry, Newt is working on it. - -rich http://www.c2.org/~rich/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMXHqX43DXUbM57SdAQEJ9QP/e1BASvp//RnwJieTnkQYuS+x6SUZ0S7m Vbny4r0Eu7HYUWIyAsMHrme19P/AUVbbxc0O0Ar+uRILfiFkTjM9xIVe6SOTIelX y3CX96icMObnj5UP5NGcYXJAg11/bAdDlEHWFezXg/qgGdkpzH2iUOhV33gmVwiJ vLd7DhHORcg= =XEvm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (2)
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JonWienke@aol.com
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Rich Graves