Re: Sometimes ya just gotta nuke em
Rich, Neither dropping nuclear weapons on Japanese cities nor an invasion of Japan was necessary to secure surrender of the Japanese government. David Kahn explains: Communications intelligence contributed...in major ways to the Allies' Pacific victory. It stepped up American submarine sinkings of the Japanese merchant fleet by one third. This cutting of Japan's lifelines was, Premier Hideki Tojo said after the war, one of the major factors that defeated Japan. David Kahn. "Codebreaking in World Wars I and II: The Major Successes and Failures, Their Causes and Their Effects" (1980). In: Kahn on Codes: Secrets of the New Cryptology. Macmillan Publishing Co. 1983. Page 108. The water transport intercepts should provide case after case of how American submarines won one of the most important victories in the Pacific: the sinking of the Japanese merchant fleet.... Kahn. "Opportunities in Cryptology for Historians." Op cit. P 289. Some information came out shortly after World War II, when we all heard about how we broke some Japanese codes before Pearl Harbor, which...did help very much...in the successful American submarine blockade of Japan, which very largely brought the Jap- anese empire to its knees. Kahn. "Signals Intelligence in the 1980s" (1981). Op cit. P 292. In other words, it was Starvation City. --------------------------------------- As an aside. these three quotations from Kahn on Codes, a collection of articles, show that David's views in this regard are consistent over the years. Continuing-- Dropping nuclear weapons on Japanese cities or an invasion of Japan was not necessary to secure surrender of the Japanese government. William Langer explains: In the greatest air offensive in history [during May, June, and July 1945] United States land-based and carrier-based aircraft des- troyed or immobilized the remnants of the Japanese navy, shattered Japanese industry, and curtailed Japanese sea communications by sub- marine and air attack and extensive minefields. United States bat- tleships moved in to shell densely populated cities with impunity and the Twentieth Air Force dropped 40,000 tons of bombs on Japanese industrial centers in one month. William Langer. An Encyclopedia of World History. Houghton Mifflin Co. 1948. Page 1169. It was Devastation City. ------------------------ Then why Hiroshima and Nagasaki? There were two main reasons nuclear weapons were dropped on Japanese cities: (1) generally, to proclaim Pax Americana...with a bang (2) specifically, to declare war on the Soviet Union. For the sake of completeness, let's ask: If it really had been necessary to drop nuclear weapons on Japan in order to compel the Japanese government to surrender, should they have been dropped? Without hesitation. Cordially, Jim NOTE. The first part of the "Opportunities" article was published in 1972. The second part, dealing with World War II, was written perhaps a decade later for publication in the collection.
Neither dropping nuclear weapons on Japanese cities nor an invasion of Japan was necessary to secure surrender of the Japanese government.
Doesn't anyone bother to delete cpunks from the CC before sending this off topic stuff? And since I know it's coming, please refrain from trying to relate it to anything relevant here with some kind of japan-crypto or wrongful governmental action ObCrypto's. What I had for lunch is just as irrelevant, but that doesn't mean it becomes relevant if I can somehow involve encryption. Dangit, wheres my procmail. Does anyone use gnus for this list? I think I need a scoring system. Now for the on-topic stuff. Looking through my mail yesterday, noticed a credit card application from BofA. Despite the fact that they didn't want to give me a card three years ago, they have offered a student card to me. I figured that it was a lucky guess, them knowing I'm a student again. Then I noticed they were kind enough to fill in my school ("Main Campus" too) into the appropriate blank. Now, that's either a really good guess, or else they've been out looking me up. I'm currently writing a letter to BofA telling them they can kiss my rear if they're going to go around keeping tabs on me. They should at least be more careful about letting me on to them. This got me interested in which companies keep track of what information. I'm now going to write to my other credit companies and ask something like: I am interested in knowing what information your company keeps track of which is not directly related to my credit history, my balance, and my current address. For example, do you maintain or seek out any of the following information: Change in Marital Status that don't relate to credit account change or loss of employment spending habits, ie, types of goods, dollar amounts and locations, for any purpose credit or bank accounts with other companies, for any purpose Can anyone suggest anything else to ask about? I know, for example, that some companies keep track of spending so as to be able to call you up if you, for example, start buying large numbers of cars in asia. Or maybe they have a red flag that goes up if you start to max out all your other credit cards or something. But I've run out of things that I think they're keeping track of that they don't need to. I suppose DNA samples is probably still a bit away. Don
Even your on-topic stuff wasn't really on-topic "-) You can relax - the bank doesn't have a bunch of PIs snooping around to find out what you're up to. What actually happens is that the university sells the list of registered students to various organisations for use in direct-mail campaigns. (defun modexpt (x y n) "computes (x^y) mod n" (cond ((= y 0) 1) ((= y 1) (mod x n)) ((evenp y) (mod (expt (modexpt x (/ y 2) n) 2) n)) (t (mod (* x (modexpt x (1- y) n)) n))))
Don <don@cs.byu.edu> writes:
Now for the on-topic stuff. Looking through my mail yesterday, noticed a credit card application from BofA. Despite the fact that they didn't want to give me a card three years ago, they have offered a student card to me. I figured that it was a lucky guess, them knowing I'm a student again. Then I noticed they were kind enough to fill in my school ("Main Campus" too) into the appropriate blank. Now, that's either a really good guess, or else they'v been out looking me up. I'm currently writing a letter to BofA telling them they can kiss my rear if they're going to go around keeping tabs on me. They should at least be more careful about letting me on to them.
Most likely, BofA just obtained the mailing list of all students from your school and mailed the same offer to all. If you read the fine print, you'll probably find that your application is still subject to their credit approval.
This got me interested in which companies keep track of what information. I'm now going to write to my other credit companies and ask something like: ...
If you haven't read the book _Privacy for Sale: How Computerization Has Made Everyone's Private Life an Open Secret_ by Jeffrey Rothfeder (ISBN 0-671-73492-x), I suggest you get hold of it. You'll be amazed. :-)
spending habits, ie, types of goods, dollar amounts and locations, for any purpose
Most definitely! When you charge things to your credit cards, the types of products and services you purchase, and the typical amounts you spend all go into your consumer profile, available for the right price. --- Dr. Dimitri Vulis Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
<<"In other words it was stvation/devastation city">> It was lot worse than that on the Japanese-imperialits occupied islands of the Pacific when the Nisei troops choosenot to surrender and instead, mad last-ditch charges against AMerican lines - which killed not a small number of Americans. And of course, there were the suicide bombers. Submarine operations don't cost zero lives, either. In fact, just plain old regular military logistics - keeping the boys mobilized and in place ina theatre of operations - don't cost zero lives, even if there are _no_ hostilities. And while all the starvation and devastation was going on in Japanese cities, the Japanese troops were torturing and murdering Allied POWs, and Asian civilains in all the Japanese-occupied teritories. Those people deserved liberation, too. I think you give your game away when you complain about how we were being unfair to Comrade Stalin. As far as Pax Americana goes, the Japanese just _volunteered_ to_increase_ the payments they make to support the American garrison in Japan. The non-Okinawans want us in their country. I guess they know that the alternative is a Red Chinese garrison. And lots of other Asians are afraid of the same alternative - or of Japanese garrisons in their homeland. THey've "been there, done that". Alan Horowitz alanh@norfolk.infi.net
Alan Horowitz writes: : It was lot worse than that on the Japanese-imperialits occupied islands : of the Pacific when the Nisei troops choosenot to surrender and instead, : mad last-ditch charges against AMerican lines - which killed not a small : number of Americans. And of course, there were the suicide bombers. Who were those second generation Japanese Americans who ``choosenot to surrender and instead, mad last-ditch charges against AMerican lines''? I am afraid that I find this all rather cryptic, which I guess makes it appropriate. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH Internet: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu
: of the Pacific when the Nisei troops choosenot to surrender and instead,
Who were those second generation Japanese Americans who ``choosenot to surrender and instead, mad last-ditch charges against AMerican lines''?
Strike that. Insert "Nippon". Don't blame me, I went to public schools.
Hi, While avoiding the many political issues in this thread to which my opinion is of little value,
As far as Pax Americana goes, the Japanese just _volunteered_ to_increase_ the payments they make to support the American garrison in Japan. The non-Okinawans want us in their country.
this is so far off the mark as to be hilarious. Public opinion against US troops in Japan is pretty high. Don't confuse what the government does to have any bearing on what people want. Also realize that US mass media's portrayal of events in Japan may be quite different than that of Japan's mass media. I would expect that this is true elsewhere as well... Vince Gebes PSI Japan
participants (7)
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Alan Horowitz -
dlv@bwalk.dm.com -
Don -
James M. Cobb -
Peter D. Junger -
Simon Spero -
Vincent Gebes