RE: Why does the state still stand:
On 15 May 96 at 17:32, Black Unicorn wrote:
I disagree. The key is prior or on site clearing. Anonymous businesses will have to depend more on reputation, and even reputation has its limits when it comes to parties that obviously have no accountabilty at all.
Participants in such a market will have to be wary of the "last shot" or "last round" problem. (Specifically that one party to the transaction may no longer wish to participate in the market, and not need to and thus is free to screw the market, "cash in" his reputation and retire on the proceeds as a result.
Still, escrows or multiple escrows will be the answer here.
Again, depending on the context, AP might wery well be the only solution or be no workable solution at all.
Now, tell me how AP is a solution if everyone in the corporation is double blinded? Who do anonymous parties put out betting pools on?
Agreed. I just supposed there might be some of the involved entities that are not totally anonymous. I don't think that you'd deliver completely anonymously a bulldozer or any other physical goods to some "anonymous" address. Somehow, if the transaction involves anything physical, there is potential for a anonimity breach.
Any physical currency can be made traceable (put a chemical or radioactive tracer or a zillion other tricks...)
And so? Because I possess or have received cash from someone does not mean that it is mine, nor that I earned it, nor that I am not merely holding it, nor that I am not acting as trustee.
Agreed too. But still, it might attract troublemakers.
Income tax and currency taxes depend on realization events. Even in the strictest sense, realization is a thin and vague concept.
Since I am not a layer, would you care to elaborate a bit more on that?
Your only remaining option is to tax possession of currency. Good luck.
Why? Don't they already do that through Tax on Capital?
Again, who are you going to kill?
Nobody. I thought that through you long law studies, you did learn to read... Or is it my english that is too imperfect? Dear Unicorn, what in the hell makes you concludes that my "disclaimer" means that I am going to kill somebody? I just say that after having turned the idea around for some time, I see it as ineluctable that *some* groups will implement it. Just bring me *one* single fact of reality that will show me that it is not possible to implement and you will have made my day. Even if it is implemented for any entirely wrong reason, I do not think that we can prevent it's implementation. BTW, since I was off from CPunks for a while, would you please tell me if you published the suite of you writings on assets concealement? I would then proceed to get it from the archives if it was published. Regards. JFA DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee Limoges porcelain, Silverware and mouth blown crystal glasses JFA Technologies, R&D consultants. Physists, technologists and engineers. PGP keys at: http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon ID# C58ADD0D : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 Unsollicited commercial e-mail will be proofread at US165 $/h Any sender of such material will be considered as to have ac- cepted the above mentionned terms.
On Wed, 15 May 1996, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
On 15 May 96 at 17:32, Black Unicorn wrote:
Again, depending on the context, AP might wery well be the only solution or be no workable solution at all.
Now, tell me how AP is a solution if everyone in the corporation is double blinded? Who do anonymous parties put out betting pools on?
Agreed. I just supposed there might be some of the involved entities that are not totally anonymous. I don't think that you'd deliver completely anonymously a bulldozer or any other physical goods to some "anonymous" address. Somehow, if the transaction involves anything physical, there is potential for a anonimity breach.
Potential, but you can manage risk with things like dead drops from trusted parties to forwarding agents to offshore drops to....
Income tax and currency taxes depend on realization events. Even in the strictest sense, realization is a thin and vague concept.
Since I am not a layer, would you care to elaborate a bit more on that?
Realization means that their is a changing of hands or of forms of assets. Income tax and taxes on currency now are dependent on such transactions. Someone already noted the problems with just taxing possession on a given date of e.g., inventory. To tax efficiently you have to tax an event of transfer. I'm not going to spend hours typing in all the kinds of realization the U.S. system employs.
Your only remaining option is to tax possession of currency. Good luck.
Why? Don't they already do that through Tax on Capital?
No. The tax is a tax on Capital _Gains_. Even this is not taxed until the gain is "realized" (the stock sold or exchanged.. etc.) There is an exception for Personal Holding Companies, or Subpart F income for example, but that's only to the extent there has still been a gain. If you taxed currency based merely on possession, then do you just tax on the first of every year? That makes it so that if I have $10,000 under my bed, I pay tax on it one year, then I pay tax on it again the next year. Boy, talk about an incentive not to save. There goes the banking industry.
Again, who are you going to kill?
Nobody. I thought that through you long law studies, you did learn to read... Or is it my english that is too imperfect?
Relax, I wasn't calling you a murderer, I was pointing out, a second time, that in anonymous corporations there was no one to kill. "Who are you going to put pools on?"
Dear Unicorn, what in the hell makes you concludes that my "disclaimer" means that I am going to kill somebody? I just say that after having turned the idea around for some time, I see it as ineluctable that *some* groups will implement it.
Just bring me *one* single fact of reality that will show me that it is not possible to implement and you will have made my day.
Give me context. It's possible to kill the president too. That doesn't mean it will become the basis of government.
Even if it is implemented for any entirely wrong reason, I do not think that we can prevent it's implementation.
That's that anonymous transactions are for.
BTW, since I was off from CPunks for a while, would you please tell me if you published the suite of you writings on assets concealement? I would then proceed to get it from the archives if it was published.
I forwarded two large segments of the work to the list, yes. If you, or anyone else on the list, would like copies, let me know. --- My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li "In fact, had Bancroft not existed, potestas scientiae in usu est Franklin might have had to invent him." in nihilum nil posse reverti 00B9289C28DC0E55 E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com
participants (2)
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Black Unicorn -
Jean-Francois Avon