Strong-crypto smart cards in Singapore and Germany
Wednesday's "Straits Times" contains two front-page articles on the introduction of a CashCard which acts as an electronic wallet capable of storing from $10-$200 ("Dr Hu launches cash-in-a-card payment system"), and an identity card capable of Internet electronic transactions with (presumably RSA) 1024-bit encryption ("50,000 to take part in electronic ID trials"). The ID card can also be implemented as software on disk. It appears to be purely a form of storing an ID which is then transmitted in encrypted form. The CashCard, on the other hard, is an electronic wallet developed by a group of Singapore banks. There are no details on how it works, except that it doesn't have any sort of protection - it's up to you to make sure the card isn't stolen. The standardisation committee of the German banks have also produced an electronic wallet which should have 25 million (yes, 25M) users by January of next year. Again, this is a pure electronic wallet, with 2-key triple DES and 768-bit (to become 1024-bit) RSA encryption. The relevant standards are still in the process of being translated, but should be available Real Soon Now (the complete specification will be made public). This looks like a very nice system, and unlike Mondex doesn't rely entirely on the hope that criminals can't get at the data on the card. Peter.
In <84936010217079@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>, on 12/01/96 at 02:21 AM, pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz said:
Wednesday's "Straits Times" contains two front-page articles on the introduction of a CashCard which acts as an electronic wallet capable of storing from $10-$200 ("Dr Hu launches cash-in-a-card payment system"), and an identity card capable of Internet electronic transactions with (presumably RSA) 1024-bit encryption ("50,000 to take part in electronic ID trials"). The ID card can also be implemented as software on disk. It appears to be purely a form of storing an ID which is then transmitted in encrypted form. The CashCard, on the other hard, is an electronic wallet developed by a group of Singapore banks. There are no details on how it works, except that it doesn't have any sort of protection - it's up to you to make sure the card isn't stolen.
The standardisation committee of the German banks have also produced an electronic wallet which should have 25 million (yes, 25M) users by January of next year. Again, this is a pure electronic wallet, with 2-key triple DES and 768-bit (to become 1024-bit) RSA encryption. The relevant standards are still in the process of being translated, but should be available Real Soon Now (the complete specification will be made public). This looks like a very nice system, and unlike Mondex doesn't rely entirely on the hope that criminals can't get at the data on the card.
<sigh> Big Brother comming to a bank near you. Does anyone understand the implications of a society moving to an electroinc cash based system?? All trasactions will be recorded, moitored, tracked & analysed. This is not just the government that one has to worry about but corporations also. Insurance industry: - Gee Mr. Jones seems that you buy too much junk food & red meat. Our actuaries say this makes you a "high risk". - Gee Ms. Smith you speend too much money at the bars. Our actuaries say you are a high risk for DUI & accidents. Company Employment: - Gee Mr. Thompson you spend too much on beer & cigarettes. Oh yes we don't like the magizines you read either. IRS: - Well, well, well Mr & Ms Washington our records show that you spent $50,000 last year but only declaired $35,000 care to explain where the extra money came from?? And the bueaty of this system is the crypto. Every transaction you make has your crypto signature. No deniability. Your John Hancock on every pack of ciggarettes, case of beer, every Playboy magizine, every book you buy, any charities or political orginizations you contribute to. Every intamate detail of your life in someones computer somewhere. Ahhhh... What a Brave New World we are creating! P.S. For those of you dreaming of anonymous e-cash & the crypto anarchy of the future; do you really think the government & banking industries are going to give up controll of the curency regardless of what for it takes? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com> -----------------------------------------------------------
P.S. For those of you dreaming of anonymous e-cash & the crypto anarchy of the future; do you really think the government & banking industries are going to give up controll of the curency regardless of what for it takes?
But its not a matter of "giving it up", its more "not being given it." There is little control with cash now, only some if the serial numbers are prerecorded and watched for, and even then not to a paint where they can come stomp on you before you walk out of the mall. But I agree, it is unlikely that banks would pass up the opportunity, all in the name of "loss reduction" and "profit through sharing of demographics" Marc marc@mtjeff.com
Does anyone understand the implications of a society moving to an electroinc cash based system??
Well, yes - or do you mean the implications for criminals?
All trasactions will be recorded, moitored, tracked & analysed. This is not just the government that one has to worry about but corporations also.
First of all, a lot of that information is already available - we do use credit cards for virtually everything, and also, I doubt our spending habits will be readily available to anyone who asks...
Insurance industry:
- Gee Mr. Jones seems that you buy too much junk food & red meat. Our actuaries say this makes you a "high risk".
- Gee Ms. Smith you speend too much money at the bars. Our actuaries say you are a high risk for DUI & accidents.
Well, if I were an insurance company, and I could get this data, I too would make these decisions - it makes good business sense - insurance isn't your right you know...
Company Employment:
- Gee Mr. Thompson you spend too much on beer & cigarettes. Oh yes we don't like the magizines you read either.
That would suck, but really, how is everyone in the world going to get this information?
IRS:
- Well, well, well Mr & Ms Washington our records show that you spent $50,000 last year but only declaired $35,000 care to explain where the extra money came from??
Hmmmm.....why exactly would one declare less than they made? If you don't agree with the tax system, use your democratic voice to change it OR get out.
At 11:04 AM -0500 11/30/96, William H. Geiger III wrote: [stuff about various non-anonymous "digital cash" systems snipped]
<sigh> Big Brother comming to a bank near you.
Does anyone understand the implications of a society moving to an electroinc cash based system??
Yes, many people understand. See messages over the past several years on this list (before the S/N dropped to recent historic lows). See the many discussions here and elsewhere of _real_ "digital cash." "Digital cash" and "electronic commerce" are such hot concepts now that all sorts of non-anonymous, fully traceable systems are being touted as "digital cash."
All trasactions will be recorded, moitored, tracked & analysed. This is not just the government that one has to worry about but corporations also.
Insurance industry:
- Gee Mr. Jones seems that you buy too much junk food & red meat. Our actuaries say this makes you a "high risk".
- Gee Ms. Smith you speend too much money at the bars. Our actuaries say you are a high risk for DUI & accidents.
These are indeed reasons to someday be even more concerned than now about traceable transactions. (Just for the record, what the hypothetical insurance companies and employers are doing by using data they have obtained should not, in a free society, be illegal in any way. All information contributes to decision-making, about loans, credit, insurance, employment, etc. In a free society, it is up to people to not disclose that which they do not wish remembered.) --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
participants (5)
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John Kozubik -
Marc -
pgut001＠cs.auckland.ac.nz -
Timothy C. May -
William H. Geiger III