Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment
David Honig writes:
At 12:55 PM 12/23/97 -0500, Colin Rafferty wrote:
William H Geiger writes:
In <ocryb1c2i2u.fsf@ml.com>, on 12/23/97 at 10:30 AM, Colin Rafferty <craffert@ml.com> said:
Paul Bradley writes:
Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire someone for being jewish/black/homosexual???
Welcome to the 20th Century, moron.
Really amazing how many so-called "freedom fighters" become STATIST if the proper buttons are pushed.
What are you talking about?
Freedom of expression is not the same as freedom of oppression.
You aren't being oppressed the other party doesn't want to interact with you, unless that party is government providing base services to all (e.g. police/courts/border protection).
Actually, you can be.
You *are* being oppressed if mutually consensual behavior is interfered with by others including the State.
You *are* being oppressed if you are coerced into a relationship you don't want.
You are not being coerced into anything. If you don't want to serve food to Blacks, don't open a restaurant. It's your choice. By the way, you are also not allowed to dump toxic waste in your own backyard. Are you being oppressed?
An employer-employee relationship is like a marriage or any other arrangement between adults -mutually consensual.
In a fantasy world, it is mutually consensual. It the real world, it is seldom mutual.
Colin, do you consider yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you? What about a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper?
Nope. Of course, this has nothing to do with anything.
Freedom is only tested when it hurts.
With freedom comes responsibility. Decency is one of them. -- Colin
Colin Rafferty <craffert@ml.com> writes:
You *are* being oppressed if mutually consensual behavior is interfered with by others including the State.
You *are* being oppressed if you are coerced into a relationship you don't want.
You are not being coerced into anything. If you don't want to serve food to Blacks, don't open a restaurant. It's your choice.
Prostitution is legal in some jurisdictions (and will hopefully be legalized in others), and is openly tolerated in most others. My question is, does Colin@ML feel that the prostitutes should be allowed to discriminate when taking on clients? Should a prostitute be allowed to refuse to serve black patrons? Should she be allowed to refuse to serve bisexuals (who are more likely to infect her with AIDS)? Should she be allowed to discriminate against prospective clients who smell bad? "If you don't want to fuck everybody indiscriminately, don't become a prostitute."
Colin, do you consider yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you? What about a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper?
Sure he does. Colin@ML reminds me in this respect of the attempt by Russian bolsheviks to "nationalize" women after the 1917 revolution. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
You are not being coerced into anything. If you don't want to serve food to Blacks, don't open a restaurant. It's your choice.
I really hate having to go over and over basic points, but will do in the hope of bringing even a tiny glimmer of enlightenment to you: If you don`t want to serve food to blacks, open and restaurant and refuse to serve blacks in it, put a sign on the door saying "whites only, no niggers please", if blacks try to force you to serve them in your restaurant protect your rights by killing them. Simple as that.
By the way, you are also not allowed to dump toxic waste in your own backyard. Are you being oppressed?
Dumping toxic waste in my back yard will kill my neighbours. How does refusing to hire blacks or any other group harm anyone but myself (in terms of trade levels)?
Colin, do you consider yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you? What about a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper?
Nope. Of course, this has nothing to do with anything.
On the contrary it is an entirely analagous situation, someone is choosing not to associate with you, do you go crying to the govt. claiming you didn`t get a fair shake because sarah in accounts wouldn`t fuck you at the office christmas party?
With freedom comes responsibility. Decency is one of them.
With freedom comes responsibility not to infringe someone elses rights, I infringe no-one elses rights by refusing to hire them... Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
participants (3)
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Colin Rafferty -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Paul Bradley