PRZ grand jury - how about free accts for them...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- cpunks, i was thinking about the whole PRZ thing last night and especially about our lack of information. One of the best things that could happen is to get some or all of the members of the grand jury on the net and subscribed to the CP list so we could ask questions. If they just had e-mail we could submit questions to them and ask that they reply to the whole list. In this vein, it would be nice if someone (c2??) would offer dialup access for any members of the grand jury who wanted it. i would be happy to offer shell accts to any member so they could enlighten us about the mysterious ways of the TLAs. Unfortunately, they would need to obtain telnet access for this. Is there any way we could offer these accts to them? i suppose their names are not known so this is obviously a problem and it wouldn't speak well of the cypherpunks to go violating someones privacy just so we could ask them to explain the government to us. Just some thoughts... - -pjf patrick finerty = zinc@zifi.genetics.utah.edu = pfinerty@nyx.cs.du.edu U of Utah biochem grad student in the Bass lab - zinc fingers + dsRNA! ** FINGER zinc-pgp@zifi.genetics.utah.edu for pgp public key - CRYPTO! zifi runs LINUX 1.3.56 -=-=-=WEB=-=-=-> http://zifi.genetics.utah.edu -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by mkpgp1.6, a Pine/PGP interface. iQCVAwUBMPbV2U3Qo/lG0AH5AQEqPAP9EGSd1P9+Fubx+9RsMrjYphRVRBiHN/Ne DtlLgIx+g+i49lFfs0hAXfrpV5j/0l3fIDpUiUpUWEkJ+HJRfaAIdhgsYn1qNV+w /CZHaUjGBejd0BxD0WhxH6hMEgpWaTimgyGRRxJkABqsDzuqhnwEt2HFmChucTSy 3ibOq8y1cTs= =3TDU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
In Siskiyou County, the names of the foreman of the Grand Jury (local) are printed in the newspaper on appointment. You don't need to know the names. Go to the courthouse and ask the deputy Marshall to "give the foreman this letter". I'd have a "straight" looking person do it, since the deputy isn't *required* to assist. HEck, you could probably just address a letter to "Foreman of Grand Jury, Federal Courthouse". Alan Horowitz alanh@norfolk.infi.net
sounds like jury tampering to me. a good way to go to jail quickly. A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin@law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.
Michael Froomkin <froomkin@law.miami.edu> said: MF> sounds like jury tampering to me. a good way to go to jail quickly. Just like O.J.? Or didn't you hear about the party he threw for his jurors? -- #include <disclaimer.h> /* Sten Drescher */ 1973 Steelers About Three Bricks Shy of a Load 1994 Steelers 1974 Steelers And the Load Filled Up 1995 Steelers? To get my PGP public key, send me email with your public key and Subject: PGP key exchange Key fingerprint = 90 5F 1D FD A6 7C 84 5E A9 D3 90 16 B2 44 C4 F3 Unsolicited email advertisements will be proofread for a US$100 fee.
On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Michael Froomkin wrote:
sounds like jury tampering to me. a good way to go to jail quickly.
Horsepoop. The Grand Jury exists by itself. It doesn't need a judge's or a prosecutor's permission to receive letters. I know this must cause heartburn and gnashing of teeth, to lawyers. Imagine, making decisions without a lawyer in control......
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Michael Froomkin wrote:
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:17:35 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Froomkin <froomkin@law.miami.edu> To: zinc <zinc@zifi.genetics.utah.edu> Cc: cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: Re: PRZ grand jury - how about free accts for them...
sounds like jury tampering to me. a good way to go to jail quickly.
how can it be jury tampering if the jury has been disbanded? i did not mean to influence an active grand jury, but to ask questions of one that had finished it's job. - -pjf patrick finerty = zinc@zifi.genetics.utah.edu = pfinerty@nyx.cs.du.edu U of Utah biochem grad student in the Bass lab - zinc fingers + dsRNA! ** FINGER zinc-pgp@zifi.genetics.utah.edu for pgp public key - CRYPTO! zifi runs LINUX 1.3.56 -=-=-=WEB=-=-=-> http://zifi.genetics.utah.edu -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by mkpgp1.6, a Pine/PGP interface. iQCVAwUBMPbke03Qo/lG0AH5AQFgPgQAoEs1YccZJVhSeUiFUTuvfe24+OJ1A07l 6eJBQpXPEX07V4udiAlSw9SQYoKO2ezwDVM0WW2Pr3lJnIfJ318neN5/OQe0YGxk PqsrfvwaC7SlnrrSub9D8DKlCIoMVesowDeebkVMXeReaa75tcZn67/PYnctaCYq cXhqg4TGoic= =V7jy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, zinc wrote:
how can it be jury tampering if the jury has been disbanded?
It can't.
i did not mean to influence an active grand jury, but to ask questions of one that had finished it's job.
You can give them accounts, but they are still covered by their secrecy oath, so they can't answer questions about what the grand jury did (at least in most jurisdictions, YMMV). This got very contraversial in the Rocky Flats case, where the grand jurors hired a lawyer to get permission to go public to complain about a failure to prosecute. I don't recall ever reading about the outcome of that case, so I can't report the result. If the jurors had won, I would have expected to hear about it. It may still be pending. A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin@law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.
On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, Michael Froomkin wrote:
sounds like jury tampering to me. a good way to go to jail quickly.
Probably not, especially once the grand jury's term has expired. What the non-lawyers must realize, however, is that (in most cases) relatively little of a "grand jury investigation" is conducted before the grand jury. It varies from case to case, and prosecutor to prosecutor, but gathering records using grand jury subpoenas (and reporting to the GJ that the records have been obtained), interviewing witnesses outside the GJ (and eventually summarizing the information when presenting a proposed indictment for consideration), is much more common. There are various reasons for this: minimize the inconvenience to the members of the grand jury (if they had to hear every witness, productive or otherwise ...), limited available grand jury time, unnecessary creation of Jencks Act material (testimony of trial witnesses which must be turned over to the defense), and simple lack of time. Know that agents cannot be present in the GJ except when they are testifying (and only one witness is allowed at a time). I, for example, have about 40 investigations going on for which I bear at least some responsibility. Most are conducted by the agents until they present the case to me for a final decision on whether to present a proposed indictment. Certain cases, of course, I am more involved in, and I would guess that the Mitnick investigation was one. But being more involved almost certainly doesn't mean bringing *every* witness to testify before the GJ. So even if a grand juror told you everything that went on in a particular case, you would not know everything the investigators/prosecutors know. EBD
participants (5)
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Alan Horowitz -
Brian Davis -
Michael Froomkin -
Sten Drescher -
zinc