On Tue, 14 Nov 1995 s1113645@tesla.cc.uottawa.ca wrote:

For those who care, the Communications Security Establishment has been getting some flak for spying on Mex. during NAFTA talks and on Korea to help us sell Can. nuke reactors: (This rather mirrors the trouble their sister agency, the NSA, has been getting into) (sorry the online newscasts were rather vague)

Hmm, actually the news tape is reading a little strange here in Canada. Not AP, or REUTERS, but simply the Canadian Press newswire. Let's see ... over the last couple of days, we've had one provincial Premier resign over "BingoGate" -- kickbacks from bingo games, another premier is under some pretty heavy fire for some insider trading in a company he promoted in Hong Kong, (actually his wife got stock she never had to pay for), while Canada in conjunction with the normally very neutral Swiss have frozen accounts pertaining to about $20 million or so in kickbacks from Airbus Industries to a "senior Canadian politician". And all these stories ... coincidentally ... broke back to back. It's almost as though the country is disinfecting itself, or has taken one particularly powerful laxative. But the CSE story is really, really smelly. The worst of the whole lot. I think that there might be more to this than appears on the surface. Maybe filling in some details might help our friends on this list. You listening, Perry??? * * * On Tue, 14 Nov 1995 s1113645@tesla.cc.uottawa.ca wrote:

Electronic snooping part of the game

OTTAWA (CP)--Intelligence experts say it's no big secret that Canada's high-tech spy agency snoops on friendly countries for financial gain.

No big secret?? It was news to me. ;-)

Increasingly, intelligence agencies around the world are using their antennas, computers and codebreakers to gather economic information, Wesley Wark, a University of Toronto history professor, said Monday.

Some of Canada's largest trading partners--including the United States, France and Japan--comb the airwaves for useful information, so Canada would be foolish not to join the game, said Wark.

Wark actually continued here. He said: "I don't know what a friendly power in the economic sphere is, exactly, these days. That seems to be a very ambiguous term." (Of course, this is diplo-dodo-speak for something ... I think ... but I'm not sure what.)

Canada's secretive Communications Security Establishment--an arm of the Defence Department--collects and analyses communications traffic on the activities of foreign states, corporations and people.

Jane Shorten, a former CSE employee, told CTV News in an interview Sunday the agency spied on Canada's allies and trading partners--including Mexico and South Korea--by eavesdropping on embassies, consulates and diplomats.

There was also a followup segment, broadcast Monday. I think that "Jane Shorten" said that the CSE intercepted telephone conversations and faxes of Canadians working at FOREIGN embassies in Canada. But Prime Minister Chretien, in ... New Zealand ... at a meeting of the Commonwealth did not deny Canada is spying on allies, but he did say that "This is an organization that works within the law of Canada". He also said, "They do not report to me on a daily basis and I cannot make any comments on if they are spying on anybody. I don't know. But they have the mandate to check a few things around the world. Probably somebody is listening to us at this moment." Later the Prime Minister said that if any laws have been broken, "somebody will have to pay the price." Ottawa maintains that the CSE, the NSA and their counterparts in Britain, Australia, and New Zealand have all agreed not to spy on each other. He also said that the CSE does not target Canadians and scrupulously abides by Canadian laws. "Jane Shorten" said in her Sunday broadcast, "I have lived with this information for so long and I just think that it is time that Canada knows what the CSE is doing." "Shorten" worked as an analyst for the CSE from 1986 to 1994 when she was laid off. "Shorten" said that the agency spied on Canada's allies and trading partners, eavesdropping on friendly embassies, consulates, and diplomats in Canada and around the world. Ottawa denies it. "Countries like Canada have understandings that they don't carry out these activities against each other." Solicitor General Herb Gray said earlier this year in response to claims that the US Central Intelligence Agency had spied on the Japanese delegation during auto trade talks in Geneva. "Shorten" however replied: "He does not know what's going on because CSE is certainly doing that ... I spied on the (South) Korean government for the Canadian government." [I think she was referring to Atomic Energy of Canada's sale of nuclear power plants ... possibly ... but I don't know, about AECL.] Today, it was reported by the deupty prime minister -- since the Prime Minister is away at an economic conference in Japan -- that there will be a review of operations to make sure that the Communications Security Establishment is obeying the law. "And if, in fact, there has been illegal activity going on, we'll want to deal with that in as public a way as possible," said Sheila Copps. The Mexican government has presented a diplomatic note to Canada expressing "surprise and concern" over the report that it was spied on during the North American free-trade talks. South Korea is looking into the matter as well. The head of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association wants an independent committee to oversee CSE operations. Alan Bovoroy, angered by the suggestions of spying on Canadians, said a watchdog could put pressure on politicians to make changes if the CSE steps over the line. International diplomacy experts said the allegations of economic espionage wouldn't damage Ottawa's relations with the countries. -- E N D -- And I guess ... that's all of the news that I've got to this hour. Except for one brief note, that Prime Minister Chretien tried to call the States, but the Government shutdown meant that his call couldn't get through. I think he tried to call NASA. Speaking personally, I just think that something is a bit fishy. I mean "Jane Shorten" is a nym if I ever heard one ... probably married to "Dick Lengthen" or something. But putting my wry sense of haha, aside there are some serious questions. How does someone cleared for TOP SECRET UMBRA, like our dear "Jane Shorten" say, "I have lived with this information for so long and I just think that it is time that Canada knows what CSE is doing." And then later say: "I feel so strongly that its time that people learned what CSE is all about." I mean ... HELLO .... GiGGle TesT ... what on earth did she think the CSE did?? Made snowmen and skated on the Rideau Canal?? "Shorten" apparently is quite distraught, over the stepped up CSE operations in 1991. Operations targetted at foreign embassies in Canada. She recalled overhearing conversations of Canadians employed there -- even one woman's phone call to her doctor. She was appalled and confronted her boss, who assured her that the practice was legal. I mean, whop dee doo ... "Shorten" overheard a patient/doctor telephone call that a Canadian made from their place of work -- a foreign embassy. Did she listen with great intent and intererst, or did she simply try not to listen?? If "Shorten" was so disraught at listening in on personal information, she should have closed her ears. I mean, this is Canada, what is the problem if we listen to people who work in embassies?? The agency IS obligated to destroy information about Canadians it scoops up in its electronic net. A rare exception might be a phone call describing a terrorist plot, but that would truly be exceptional, I think. I mean its not like one big fishing expedition. In any event, "Jane Shorten" returned to Canada from New York, this last evening. She told CTV she was aware her revelations could result in prosecution under the Official Secrets Act but she felt the risk of prison was worth it. And that's the fleshed out version of the story. I'm just sorry that our Prime Minister is in such a bad position because of the timing of this "Jane Shorten's" revelations. She also revealed that Canada spied on Japan. To think ... Canadian Prime Minister Chretien is a guest of the Japanese people today. Talk about some awkward moments. I mean, what on earth do you talk about?? George Bush and Sushi?? Alice de 'nonymous ... ...just another one of those... ...hunters... P.S. This post is in the public domain. C. S. U. M. O. C. L. U. N. E.