Re: The Crisis with Remailers
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 9:00 AM 5/18/96, Dr. Dimitri Vulis wrote:
"Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com> writes:
1. there is no economic incentive.
So, add the code to mixmaster (and even the old style remailers) to collect e-cash as it passes on the anonymous message. Then this will be a good way to accumulate some e-cash, and a number of people will try running remailers for this very purpose. Witness the recent Usenet spam by someone advertizing a for-pay remailer.
I was invited to the digicash API design meeting precisely to make sure it could be used in remailers. It will not be using the current API. The problem is that Mixmaster requires exact knowledge of the size of every object in the message, to maintain constant message size. I could set aside room for one, two, three coins, but there is no guarantee that the payment will be made with only that many coins. The current API is going to be high level. It will does not allow the program to know anything about the internals of the payment. I need to be able to specify payment of amount X using no more than N coins. As soon as I have that level of control, you will see postage in Mixmaster. -Lance -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMZ40x/Pzr81BVjMVAQFdTQf/VtRl3MEm+YfIYxsJdEhnv9lsL26S00oG RTvJiVbzyriGmWBhQY14ITQjnPrNNnRYfrmxVT2nRAEpfC8a63TqD5BN2eeUOSWU g/eagI3mWqlQssjCpeOEq6pzBcvKCTu2nECfAWCVN87MA7thq4Xj3haFjv+NP2K6 i8Bq/JRz6oaq35Bz0lqskBemiUOLXJOUK93LXFpw3VlTces+vDMSCWXwtkhAOLLO yav12MbRJRt/heUotsl6wzp2tdEV4xlsciedUOfk8fQVDSvh31J2xyvaupepHosC UUCz3sc8f4icWXCtBkimLyzgp/pNg7E9rN//Ps8ZzQquKPcr/7GtAQ== =BC1f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki@obscura.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. Mixmaster, the next generation remailer, is now available! http://www.obscura.com/~loki/Welcome.html or FTP to obscura.com "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ----------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <adc3e4280c021004b7c4@[206.170.115.3]>, Lance Cottrell <loki@infonex.com> wrote:
At 9:00 AM 5/18/96, Dr. Dimitri Vulis wrote:
"Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com> writes:
1. there is no economic incentive.
So, add the code to mixmaster (and even the old style remailers) to collect e-cash as it passes on the anonymous message. Then this will be a good way to accumulate some e-cash, and a number of people will try running remailers for this very purpose. Witness the recent Usenet spam by someone advertizing a for-pay remailer.
I was invited to the digicash API design meeting precisely to make sure it could be used in remailers. It will not be using the current API. The problem is that Mixmaster requires exact knowledge of the size of every object in the message, to maintain constant message size. I could set aside room for one, two, three coins, but there is no guarantee that the payment will be made with only that many coins. The current API is going to be high level. It will does not allow the program to know anything about the internals of the payment. I need to be able to specify payment of amount X using no more than N coins. As soon as I have that level of control, you will see postage in Mixmaster.
-Lance
I mentioned this to Chaum, and he didn't really seem agree with the need for something lower-level... Another problem with postage in Mixmaster: the minimum ecash payment is $0.01. Do we want to charge that much for email? Need we consider micropayments? - Ian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMaCeeUZRiTErSPb1AQE4AgP+NvB6MjqSeF74NEeakj+u+99oZwBcFHuP ESwbu/QiRiiolU8beC341p0HL40KHdCyfx7rfQUDOIAXzGnLaoBCjVSw/DotAlAD UuB6NI9TXhv7j5dIywOdyYAp6SU10IKDLEuA6lkQ+jg71fXteoFF0o2nTpGaPcaU Zqv9/UZmglI= =1Ffr -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Another problem with postage in Mixmaster: the minimum ecash payment is $0.01. Do we want to charge that much for email? Need we consider micropayments?
one cent could well be too low. -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-601-9777x3 Community ConneXion, Inc. FAX: 510-601-9734 The Internet Privacy Provider Dialin: 510-658-6376 http://www.c2.net/ (or login as "guest") sameer@c2.net
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The entity known as Ian Goldberg is alleged to have written:
Another problem with postage in Mixmaster: the minimum ecash payment is $0.01. Do we want to charge that much for email? Need we consider micropayments?
The above, as stated, is inaccurate. The "minimum ecash payment" is not known at this time, although we think it might be greater than 2^-32 US Dollars. <img alt=":-)" meta meaning="That was a joke." src="http://www.c2.net/~bryce/smiley.gif"> Regards, Bryce #include <stddisclaimer.h> /* Not speaking for anyone else at this time. */ - -----BEGIN GOODTIMES VIRUS INNOCULATION----- Copy me into your .sig for added protection! - ----- END GOODTIMES VIRUS INNOCULATION----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i Comment: Auto-signed under Unix with 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.1b2 iQB1AwUBMaF58kjbHy8sKZitAQGDngMAqACaQA9rMDMq644cSVvtUtxnpV2jIlpC cCMwZKCFZEiBIy0Y1wN5uiITSQSJASUEh+4xZ5GZfT6ngn4etIgg1Np735G+nZ1j O4dP0QdRVr2ULARIPdZ2fjUV31iSWiXc =d9ic -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (4)
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bryce＠digicash.com -
iang＠cs.berkeley.edu -
loki＠infonex.com -
sameer＠c2.org