Ross Anderson's Eternity service
Sherry Mayo posted here a while back a reference to Ross Anderson's Eternity service paper, <URL: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk:80/users/rja14/#Lib >. He is also giving an invited talk on the subject this fall at a crypto conference in Prague. The goal of the Eternity service is to make published information permanently and ineradicably available, despite efforts on the part of powerful attackers to destroy it. The attack model explicitly includes governments. This has obvious relevance to current controversies involving copyright, trade secrets, etc. It's difficult to evaluate the proposal because many of the issues seem more legal than technical. Can a service like this, which would seemingly exist largely to circumvent legal restrictions on publishing, possibly be legal? Anderson's basic concept is of a network of storage servers in widely scattered jurisdictions. He uses cryptography so that although the servers store data, no single computer knows exactly what is stored in the encrypted files it holds. Keys to the data are spread across the network using secret sharing techniques, with mutual cooperation among the servers being necessary to decrypt files. (I believe the files themselves are redundantly stored on individual servers, but they are encrypted with keys which are split.) Anonymous communications are used among the network of computers to reply to requests, so that attackers can't tell which computer produced a requested document. The overall goal is apparently to arrange things so that each individual server has a level of deniability if they are accused of having provided information which is illegal in some jurisdictions. It can deny having produced any particular document in question, and if everything is designed properly it is not possible to prove otherwise (other than by subverting a bunch of the other servers). I won't try to go into much detail here (actually I found some of the crypto details kind of hard to follow in the paper, but I will write up my understanding if there is interest) but some of the other ideas are that the service would charge money enough to cover its costs and add new equipment as storage requirements increase (to prevent flooding attacks), and that requests would be submitted by broadcast to the network of servers, and information returned via a remailer network. The documents would be identified by some global names, and one of the documents would be an index file which identifies the others, with descriptions. A few questions for discussion: - Would it be possible in practice to run a network like this? - Would there be much interest in it among users? - Would it be a net benefit to society for such a service to exist? Hal
On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, Hal wrote:
A few questions for discussion: - Would there be much interest in it among users?
I would be.
- Would it be a net benefit to society for such a service to exist?
It would benefit people. It may harm society by doing so. Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@smoke.suba.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In list.cypherpunks, snow@smoke.suba.com writes:
On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, Hal wrote:
A few questions for discussion: - Would there be much interest in it among users?
I would be.
Me, too. I think it's a frighteningly good idea.
- Would it be a net benefit to society for such a service to exist?
It would benefit people. It may harm society by doing so.
It may harm some particular instantiations of "society", but I think there's a net benefit. Remember that evolution always takes more than one generation. - -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy@scytale.com PGP Public Key fingerprint = 31 86 EC B9 DB 76 A7 54 13 0B 6A 6B CC 09 18 B6 Key available from pubkey@scytale.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMfWl2hvikii9febJAQFm0QP+JmIGuzCGCpqbdTIfViL9G9Jry7Ryh6pr 5d80uiyTiHbKCYvp+hSoVnnet4TDHhjUSu3eXbAlcl8Id1hci7i1aVOIdIi0rxZ8 SFwNDhrhaUL9940SZiaeUQjlTCYX17Ve0ipn7C15OFiR94I7dwJ5uCjrVyqXyRcs 9OEaSACUj+k= =htdw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hal Finney <hfinney@shell.portal.com> writes:
Sherry Mayo posted here a while back a reference to Ross Anderson's Eternity service paper, <URL: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk:80/users/rja14/#Lib >. He is also giving an invited talk on the subject this fall at a crypto conference in Prague.
The goal of the Eternity service is to make published information permanently and ineradicably available, despite efforts on the part of powerful attackers to destroy it. The attack model explicitly includes governments. This has obvious relevance to current controversies involving copyright, trade secrets, etc.
I too read this paper a while ago (probably after reading Sherry's post also).
It's difficult to evaluate the proposal because many of the issues seem more legal than technical. Can a service like this, which would seemingly exist largely to circumvent legal restrictions on publishing, possibly be legal?
Probably not. Perhaps it could be operated illegally. If it were possible to operate it illegally without getting individuals martyred.
A few questions for discussion:
- Would it be possible in practice to run a network like this?
Technically, I don't see why not. Legally and politically much more tricky. Continuing with the theme above of operating the system illegally, another approach might be to use disposable accounts as nodes, with anonymously opened accounts. If legal pressure got to the stage that countries outlawed anonymous accounts, perhaps cracked accounts bought from crackers could be used to run transient nodes in the Eternity service. A useful ethical role for system crackers even. Or alternatively perhaps there are enough countries around that Anderson's suggested use of many jurisdictions (particularly those with low regard for copyright would be good candidates) would be possible. These countries could lead the role in supplying the service for the unenlightened powers in other countries. I have a vague memory of hearing that there is at least one country which has no copyrights on software for individuals, but does for commercial use. Perhaps the service could survive on this model for a while before the US/NATO/OECD felt obligated to act as world police man and offer to nuke the countries, or cut off all trade or something.
- Would there be much interest in it among users?
You bet! It would be a most excellent source for a number of groups: - cypherpunks, users of crypto software for ITAR restricted material - Scientologist detractors could publish their views anonymously without fear of reprisals, remove problems of censorship in general - People who use copyright software without buying it: copyright software could be distributed with impunity, for free - Anyone with an interest in obtaining a permanent URL for themselves could purchase 50 years worth of exposure for 1Mb (Anderson proposes selling space with ecash per Mb year).
- Would it be a net benefit to society for such a service to exist?
Depends on your views of the benefits to society as a whole of copyright, patents and so on. Granted many have commercial interests in seeing these systems continue. Some people on this list seem to be of the opinion that patents, and product copyright are becoming an obsolete system with near free copying. (These people make analogies with the advent of the printing presses, the loss of power of guilds, and so on). I'm not sure it need destroy civilization as we know it if some of these changes did take place... many people would benefit from access to a wider range of software and ideas. There is the argument that perhaps people won't bother to write software if they can't sell it. I think that vendors would -cope- if software copyright were hypothetically to be disabled in one swoop as a fait-acompli, they would structure their charges differently: charge less perhaps, include printed manuals (photocopying often costs more than the book), include tech support contracts, and so on. I'm sure it's widely acknowledged that only a modest percentage of software is actually bought anyway (if we were to take a brief survey (anonymous of course) of the percentage of non-paid for software on their hard-drives, a fair amount of non-copyright compliance by individuals would be demonstrated). Adam -- #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1 lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)
participants (4)
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Adam Back -
Hal -
roy＠sendai.scytale.com -
snow