~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, Last week I offered an informal poll as to the reputational effect of "John Anonymous MacDonald" and other apparent nyms. I received responses from 31 of you. All were signed by known Cypherpunks; none were anonymous. I was not surprised to find absolutely zero respect for "Anonymous." In addition, there were no negative comments about Tim and in most cases, high marks for his restraint and dignity under the circumstances. Perhaps not so surprisingly, a significant number of you expressed the belief that the "Anonymous" posts come from Demetri Vulis. Following, are a few samples of what respondents had to say. (They are reproduced without atribution because I had not asked permission to do so in my origninal poll request.) S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Clearly, John Anonymous MacDonald is losing points. Tim's reputation is unaffected. ... I'd be suprised if anyone regarded Anonymous with any degree of respect anymore. As for Tim May, he already had a good rep in my book to start with, and by not responding in a similar matter (at least not publicly) to these people, his reputation is enhanced even more. ... Who is John Anonymous MacDonald...We can only surmise that his real joy is playing with himself in public. ... Anonymous is a total moron who'd be annoying me greatly if I hadn't managed a decent killfile. ... The posts are idiotic and childish, and reflect quite badly on the sender (presumably Dmitri Vulis KOTM). If anything, they provide a reason to pay *more* attention to tcmay. ... As with any public display of poor taste, anonymous shows themselves lackjing in judgement. I credit Tim for not responding. ... I personally think that these anonymous attacks are pointless. They are just stupid insults, and they don't do anything negative to Tim's reputation except show that someone likes abusing remailers. Perhaps Tim's reputation may get enhanced by the fact that someone has to go this low to debase him. ... It seems to me that anyone who is unwilling to allow the abused party to respond personally is undeserving of anyone's respect. To feel the need to do it in a public forum with however many thousands of people are on these lists is a sign of insecurity and weakness... ... Tarnished - John Anonymous MacDonald Enhanced - Tim May (due to his restraint!) ... Tim's reputation is definately being enhanced, if it's fair to judge a man by the ememies he keeps. ;) ... ...Since these annoying posts started a week or so ago, I have (for the first time ever) begun killfiling people and messages on the cp list. Right now I am killing all messages from John Anonymous MacDonald, Dmitri Vulis, and any message in the "daily ... regarding TCM" thread(s). I hope this madness can end, so we can get back to more normal traffic levels on the list. ... Dimitri 'Anonymous' Vulis' reputation has gone way out on the negative side. (He's been an obvious nutcase from the start...) TC May's positive reputation has increased from his handling of these attacks. ... This kind of post shows Anonymous to be at the social level of a grade school child. If s/he grows up, I may change my mind. It does nothing to effect my opinion of Tim May... Anonymous is making a public mockery of him/herself. ... The anono-twits lose by a mile.... ...It's not much different from graffiti - some people put up interesting posters on walls and telephone poles, and write interesting stuff on bathroom walls; others scrawl empty vulgarity... ... Anonymous's reputation went instantly from 0 to negative infinity. Tim May's reputation is unaffected. ... It certainly does nothing to harm Tim's reputation, from where I stand. Thank God for procmail! ... Well, as Tim has managed to sit back and take it, and I've killfiled the main perpetrators. I'd say it makes a public mockery of Anonymous. ... ...it seems evident that some non-anonymous posters aka KTOM seem to understand how to *abuse* our American freedom's but don't understand about *responsible* use. Is this a deliberate attempt to damage this list or is it that some folk just can't handle freedom? ... ...I killfile Foolish Voolish and most of the others, just because of these ridiculous ad hominem attacks on Tim. ... Anonymous' claims make him look stupid simply because they have no technical or political message - just dirty words...Tim May's reputation is enhanced, I think, by the fact that *other people* come in and dispute Anonymous' claims, over and over again.
While I didn't respond to Sandy's poll, for the obvious reason plus the reason I use to almost never respond to polls, I'm not surprised at the results. Most of us learn as children that "name calling" is rarely an effective debating technique, and responding to such name calling even less so. (It may be that non-Americans, judging from several recent examples, are not exposed to the "sticks and stones" meme, and assume childish name-calling is effective debate.) A few years ago, when Detweiler was unable to convince people about his points by use of logic, he fell into this path, and ranted on and on for several months, before finally either burning out or having enough accounts yanked for abuse. I think not getting responses from me was what angered him the most. Interesting that Detweiler returned with a _Russian_ nym. Whether Vulis will burn himself out is unclear. Judging by his "spit" page, http://206.124.65.1:80/netscum/, I rather imagine he has a years-long supply of bile stored up. Must have been those cold Russian winters. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
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In article
Last week I offered an informal poll as to the reputational effect of "John Anonymous MacDonald" and other apparent nyms.
Just remember that "John Anonymous MacDonald" is the name that appears
on _every_ item remailed from the jam remailer,
participants (3)
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iang@cs.berkeley.edu
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Sandy Sandfort
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Timothy C. May