Re: Dirty Laundry...
I'm perfectly willing to do a "live" demonstration of money laundering using the futures markets. In your last private letter, you suggested that we use real money. I see no reason to do for two reasons: 1) Commission costs and other fees are prohibitive for the small amount of money that I have. Plus, why would I want to spend all that money just to prove a point to you? 2) I see no reason to go out and borrow money for what is essentially an academic exercise. This is a game for the rich. If you've only got to move $10,000 then cash and Fed Ex is fine. So you are welcome to add all of the margin requirements and stuff and we'll work it out on paper. (I'll even sweat a bit for real, if you want.) Make out a list of the transaction costs and margin requirements and I'll come up with a target sum to transfer. Then we can figure out the risk strategy to pursue. The only problems I can see in doing this well is finding a source of futures prices. I don't have a live feed and I don't have the time in my day to sit on a terminal waiting for the right moment.(I've wasted enough on this argument.) Closing prices are okay, but they are not as efficient as using all of the noise in the market during the day. Oh, I wanted to point out one other fact about swapping tickets: It's illegal. But it is not clear that it is illegal to just place bets on both sides of the market.
Oh, I wanted to point out one other fact about swapping tickets: It's illegal. But it is not clear that it is illegal to just place bets on both sides of the market.
Yes, it is prohibitted to be both long and short the same contract at the same time. It creates a false open-interest position. (i.e. It presents an illusion to the market that a position is open when in point of fact it is a "scam" transaction, it is misleading to participants in the marketplace.) As to the idea of swapping tickets, it ignores normal audit procedure. Trading procedure is as follows: (With thanks to Bruce M. Collins, V.P. Equity Arbitrage Group, Index Products Research, Shearson Lehman Hutton Inc. and James A. Schmidt, V.P. Equity Arbitrage Group, Shearson Lehman Hutton Inc.) A customer decides to hedge a position. The trader phones directly to the floor of the appropriate exchange and places the order with a floor broker. The floor broker executes the order on the floor, and phones a report back to the trader, where the order ticket is written and the customer account number is reported to the floor. The wire operator books the trade to the customer's account and sends a hard copy confirm to the firm's branch where the customer is located. On a nightly basis, the operation area of the brokerage firm will match all trade tickets to the hard copy confirms to verify the contract. The buy/sell, price, quantity, account number, open/close will all be checked for accuracy and commissions calculated for each ticket. In addition, operations will send details of the all the trades to the Clearing Corporation which then matches buy and sell orders across brokerage house inventories, and in the event of discrepancies adjusts contracts and dollars where necessary. Prior to sending the customer a confirm, a trading desk clerk will match trade tickets and reports with the hard copy customer confirms to verify the account. On properly matched trades the confirm is sent to the customer. If a correction is necessary, the clerk will adjust the trade and again verify all trade information on the confirms the next morning. Finally, the firm's margin department will settle all contracts. A check is issued on a sell to the customer, or on a buy the customer will deliver an escrow receipt from his bank. In addition, the margin department will assign operating requirements for any opening short positions and issue and margin call that may be necessary for new or existing positions. (This is performed on a nightly basis.) So, in short, yes a broker can swap tickets, however it does leave a full audit trail. Swapped tickets provide no anonymity. In this regard, the problem is the same as that of remailers. There are additional issues as well, money laundering usually involves laundering cash. Firms will not routinely accept cash deposits for margin. Funds must be on deposit, and freely available in order for the firm to settle it's daily accounts.
Peter Wayner says:
I'm perfectly willing to do a "live" demonstration of money laundering using the futures markets. In your last private letter, you suggested that we use real money. I see no reason to do for two reasons:
1) Commission costs and other fees are prohibitive for the small amount of money that I have. Plus, why would I want to spend all that money just to prove a point to you?
Several hours ago I offered in private mail to conduct a bet with you in a jurisdiction that permits such bets -- I suggested that $10,000 might make it worth your while.
2) I see no reason to go out and borrow money for what is essentially an academic exercise. This is a game for the rich. If you've only got to move $10,000 then cash and Fed Ex is fine.
Well, the return on the bet would be quite handsome -- IF YOU ARE RIGHT. (I believe one can make such bets in England -- anyone know for sure?) Given that laundering, say, $50,000 successfully would cost almost nothing other than interest costs IF YOU ARE RIGHT, the return of $10,000 on your interest costs IF YOU ARE RIGHT would be extremely nice -- on the order of thousands of percent. IF YOU ARE RIGHT, of course.
The only problems I can see in doing this well is finding a source of futures prices.
I assure you that will be the least of your problems. You can get prices all day long from most brokers, and if you knew anything at all about the futures market (you must, since you've said so much about it thus far) you'd know that you can set orders with your broker to be triggered off by a particular price being crossed. You needn't watch the market all day long.
Oh, I wanted to point out one other fact about swapping tickets: It's illegal. But it is not clear that it is illegal to just place bets on both sides of the market.
Thats fine, but you can't successfully launder money using your technique so its not suprising that its legal. Perry
Peter Wayner says:
I'm perfectly willing to do a "live" demonstration of money laundering using the futures markets. In your last private letter, you suggested that we use real money. I see no reason to do for two reasons:
1) Commission costs and other fees are prohibitive for the small amount of money that I have. Plus, why would I want to spend all that money just to prove a point to you?
Several hours ago I offered in private mail to conduct a bet with you in a jurisdiction that permits such bets -- I suggested that $10,000 might make it worth your while.
2) I see no reason to go out and borrow money for what is essentially an academic exercise. This is a game for the rich. If you've only got to move $10,000 then cash and Fed Ex is fine.
Well, the return on the bet would be quite handsome -- IF YOU ARE RIGHT. (I believe one can make such bets in England -- anyone know for sure?) Given that laundering, say, $50,000 successfully would cost almost nothing other than interest costs IF YOU ARE RIGHT, the return of $10,000 on your interest costs IF YOU ARE RIGHT would be extremely nice -- on the order of thousands of percent. IF YOU ARE RIGHT, of course.
This system can be tested with a small amount of capital. Only two contracts will be in play at any time. So, you need only put up margin for two contracts. This is feasible for less than $10,000. When cash moves the wrong way, it can be funnelled back to the right broker. At the end of the game, we can review the brokerage statements to see if the money ended up where it was supposed to. Those who doubt Mr. Metzger's analysis should be able to find backers who will supply this small amount of working capital. I would guess that Mr. Metzger would be willing to allow his critics to pool their resources, should some turn coward or plead poverty. Peter
participants (4)
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Istvan Oszaraz von Keszi -
Perry E. Metzger -
Peter Wayner -
ph@netcom.com