"The Bill of Rights can be dangerous...."

At 2:30 PM 9/5/96, Omegaman wrote:
What strikes me as odd is that the arguments against anonymous communication are nearly identical to those against strong crypto. ie. the same four horsemen flare up in these discussions. Yet we have parties who are ostensibly pro-crypto but anti-anonymity.
To put it in a nutshell, in a free society I can have a private conversation, but I must essentially announce that I am having one and who I am having that conversation with?
As with Adam Back's mini-rant yesterday, this is exactly correct. In a free society, speech need not be approved, registered, escrowed, labelled, or identified with the Registered True Name of the speaker. One can paraphrase Esther Dyson's concerns about anonymity in several fairly equivalent forms. Here's the original: "Anonymity can be dangerous -- as can traceability, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing anonymity -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." Here's a slightly paraphrased version for freedom to read anonymously, with some "reasons" included in brackets: "Books and magazines can be dangerous [bomb recipes, racial hatred, instilling bad values, etc.]-- as can restrictions on reading, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing unfettered reading -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." (i.e., "book escrow," where one's reading materials are escrowed with Trusted Authorities, and only accessed by law enforcement under Proper Conditions. Failure to escrow reading materials would be a Class B felony. Cf. the FBI's Library Awareness Program of circa 1987-8.) A version for freedom of movement: "People moving around can be dangerous [avoiding parental responsibilities, avoiding taxes, spying, plotting to bomb buildings]-- as can traceability, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing freedom of movement -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." (a la the "position escrow system" I predicted a couple of years ago would someday be seriously considered) A version for freedom of association: "Freedom of association can be dangerous [plotting of crimes, gathering of mobs, spread of dangerous ideas, disease]-- as can restrictions on such gatherings, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing freedom of association -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." ("Club escrow"? All mailing lists, clubs, associations, and such would have to escrow an up-to-date list of members, associates, and contacts. Then, with proper authorization by proper authorities, law enforcement could inspect these lists to see who had been meeting with whom. Hotels would have to monitor use of rooms by more than two persons (the two person case is already covered by the "Sex can be dangerous..." variant of the Dyson Principle).) A version for anonymous purchases and sales: "Anonymity in sales and purchases can be dangerous [bomb materials, stolen goods, unhealthful foods, etc.] -- as can traceability, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing anonymous purchases and sales of goods -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." (There go the flea markets and garage sales (for buyers), which are largely anonymous. There goes walking into a store and paying cash for a piece of pipe (could be made into a bomb). There goes cash, period. See next item.) A version for cash: "Cash can be dangerous [illegal purchases, drugs, prostitution, tax evasion, illegal workers, extortion, etc.] -- as can traceable money, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing cash -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." (One has to presume that Dyson would probably not support Chaumian untraceable e-cash, though I doubt she would go for the other examples.) And so on. One can take Dyson's basic argument for why anonymity may be dangerous at times and why it may need to be restricted, limited, or banned, and use these arguments for a variety of other basic freedoms. Essentially, freedom can be dangerous. The world can be dangerous. In fact, it is. (No, Dyson has not called for such restrictons on freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom to read anonymously. But her argument that she would support anonymity if some form of traceability is built in essentially applies, by the same logic (that it can be dangerous) to a wide variety of other cases.) To summarize: "The Bill of Rights can be dangerous...." --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) writes:
As with Adam Back's mini-rant yesterday, this is exactly correct. In a free society, speech need not be approved, registered, escrowed, labelled, or identified with the Registered True Name of the speaker.
But the U.S. is not a "free society". Tim yaks at those who criticize his beloved United States for not being "polite". Tim is wrong.
"Books and magazines can be dangerous [bomb recipes, racial hatred, instilling bad values, etc.]-- as can restrictions on reading, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing unfettered reading -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap."
(i.e., "book escrow," where one's reading materials are escrowed with Trusted Authorities, and only accessed by law enforcement under Proper Conditions. Failure to escrow reading materials would be a Class B felony. Cf. the FBI's Library Awareness Program of circa 1987-8.)
I remember beig surprised to discover that the library computer at City University of New York (state school where I got all my degrees) had an (easily accessible) record of every book I've ever checked out in some 15 years, And by the way you need to present A LOT of ids to take books out of New York's public libraries, or to use the public-access computers in them. And by the way you're asked to sign your name and affiliation (fortunately, no ID is required) if you want to just enter NYPL's Slavic division and use their reading room. Apparently this was instituted during the cold war under the assumption that anyone interested in Slavic Division's materials needs to be watched.
"People moving around can be dangerous [avoiding parental responsibilities, avoiding taxes, spying, plotting to bomb buildings]-- as can traceability, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing freedom of movement -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap."
(a la the "position escrow system" I predicted a couple of years ago would someday be seriously considered)
Have you tried to get on an airplane lately? I just had to present my driver licence (work id w/ picture wouldn't cut it!) to get on. I understand John Gilmore got himself arrested for refusing to identify himself. As he said, there used to be a 200-year precedent that a citizen can travel within the country without having to identify himself. Shit, I used to fly under phoney names - can't do this anymore.
A version for anonymous purchases and sales:
"Anonymity in sales and purchases can be dangerous [bomb materials, stolen goods, unhealthful foods, etc.] -- as can traceability, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing anonymous purchases and sales of goods -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap."
(There go the flea markets and garage sales (for buyers), which are largely anonymous. There goes walking into a store and paying cash for a piece of pipe (could be made into a bomb). There goes cash, period. See next item.)
A very good friend of mine does EE for a living, and in particular he sells some EE equipment by mail order. He told me that every time he sells something like the gizmo to write magnetic strips on credit cards, he gets a phone call from los federales saying: you sold X who paid with Y and shipped it to address Z - do you have any additional details? He says every time they know as much about the sale as he does. :-)
A version for cash:
"Cash can be dangerous [illegal purchases, drugs, prostitution, tax evasion, illegal workers, extortion, etc.] -- as can traceable money, especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing cash -- with some form of traceability only under terms considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap."
That's why any time you attempt a cash transaction for over 10K (buying a car, depositing it in a bank, etc), you will, by law, be reported to the IRS, who will take a close look. I can't recall the name of the guy who tried to take over 10K of cash out of the country without declaring it, was searched, was caught, and is currently in jail.
And so on. One can take Dyson's basic argument for why anonymity may be dangerous at times and why it may need to be restricted, limited, or banned, and use these arguments for a variety of other basic freedoms. Essentially, freedom can be dangerous. The world can be dangerous. In fact, it is.
As I told John Gilmore: I've known Esther Dyson for some time before she got involved with EFF. I consider her a very nice person, and admire her activities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere (and am in particular thankful for her help on my past projects). I suspect that Esther simply didn't think enough about this question before saying what she was quoted as saying... I hope Esther will research the issue further, and knowing her pro-liberty record, I'm sure she will see the value of absoletely untraceable anonymity. (Likewise I have great respect for Dr. Dorothy Denning, with whom I has a very interesting conversation yesterday. She showed me cituations where GAK (or generally employer access to keys) makes sense - not when it's used by folks not affiliated with the government or the employer, of course.)

I got on four seperate airplanes with a work ID in late August. All you need to do is ask for the manager, and ask to see where in the contract it says Goverment issued ID. Air tickets come with about 300 pages of contract included by reference. No where in those contracts is anything about government ID. I was told once that it was a secret FAA regulation that I wasn't allowed to see. After I saw it the women got really adamant that I couldn't see it in context, nor find out what regulation it was part of. (I saw, but did not get to keep, about 12 lines of dot matrix printed text on computer paper.) The words to use to get on a plane seem to be breach of contract, with managers. Adam Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: | > "People moving around can be dangerous [avoiding parental responsibilities, | > avoiding taxes, spying, plotting to bomb buildings]-- as can traceability, | > especially in/by repressive regimes. Therefore I would favor allowing | > freedom of movement -- with some form of traceability only under terms | > considerably stronger than what are generally required for a wiretap." | Have you tried to get on an airplane lately? I just had to present my | driver licence (work id w/ picture wouldn't cut it!) to get on. I | understand John Gilmore got himself arrested for refusing to identify | himself. As he said, there used to be a 200-year precedent that a | citizen can travel within the country without having to identify | himself. Shit, I used to fly under phoney names - can't do this anymore. -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
participants (3)
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Adam Shostack
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dlv@bwalk.dm.com
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tcmay@got.net