just a quick note to tell you all that I just read an editorial in info security by John Droge. He rambles on in much the same way Dorothy Denning does, terrorists, you can trust that gov't...blah, blah, blah.. Anyway, I was wondering why any sane, 1/10 intelligent person would be defending the Clipper chip...then I read his bio...he is a VP at Mykotronx. Looks like their PR machine is in full steam! :) The Punisher