In Cypherpunks, on 08/19/96 at 01:34 PM, mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos) said: =If Singapore bans alt.sex.hooters, you could simply post to =alt.culture.singapore.i.got.your.hooters.right.here. [snip] =It would also send the correct message that "newsgroups" are simply =one of many labels on an article, and are not cyberspacial tearooms =where bad people congregate and there is guilt by association. I don't fault your argument on "sending the correct message," but since when has an oppressive government ever been concerned with "the correct message?" LEA's could care less about the message; their only interest is another opportunity to behave like the jack-booted thugs they generally are. but public opinion, certainly the government interests in control, have already determined in the court of small minds that "we" are inherently evil (and beyond redemption without coercion). A repressive government can not afford publications from unredeemed (and unrepentant) cyber-anarchists with a world wide audience. Is the daily comics the last refuge of freedom; witness today's "Thatch:" "cubicle cliches are one of the few things we all share; they're one of the few things that unite us as americans!" "that and utter, corrosive contempt for our elected officials." sarcasm has always been a potent weapon, and one of the hardest to silence. ..in bits and pieces it can slowly undermine the target. why is it tolerated? I'm sure our malicious uncle wanted to shut Doonsbury down during Vietnam, but joe-six-pack rarely understood the underlying message. =The alternative to doing something reasonable like this is probably =to see mass migration from "banned newsgroups" to off-topic groups, =like Lolita pictures in rec.pets.cats, when the inevitable crackdown =comes. has not the crackdown arrived? and are not the various skirmishes between governments on one side and the ISPs & users on the other sufficient evidence of governmental intentions? =As long as people can post =anonymously, they will simply switch to another existing newsgroup =when the one they are posting to becomes blocked. Once the =inevitable reciprocal pissing contest between posters and censors =gets going, Usenet as we know it will likely be destroyed. let's put it this way, the first reaction will be to "eliminate" the anonymous remailers, then ban the "alt" groups which can be created at will. if there is migration from alt.sex.binaries to rec.cats, the government will eliminate the entire usenet and we will be forced back to the NWO controlled media conglomerates, or mail lists. of course, then the fascists will block or close down the list servers on some flimsy pretext such as violating the US postal monopoly and regulations.... Many companies block the alt groups; 15 years ago, even I blocked the alt groups during business hours (and usenet was only 1.5 MBytes per day then!), restoring them at 1800. --why? because the office staff spent *at least* all morning reading usenet, occasionally even refusing to talk to customers before their daily dose! My point is simple: I reacted by limiting the **time** of access, ** not access itself. ** On the other side, Reed, Buchannan &c. have decided *they* should judge what is fit (G rated) for our consumption; and, of course, Big Brother has determined they should be the judge of political correctness and all that shit which is numbing the minds of joe-six-pack until America is a controllable homogeneous bowl of putrid gruel. government, in and of itself, may be able to selectively prosecute cyberspace "violaters," but the real danger is big business. Print newspapers receive $64 billion in ad revenue, 80% of which is local. Virtually every major US newspaper (most owned by the group of 5) has a net presence --some very informative. And, even Mexico has more than a dozen of their papers on line. However, in the US the news is still the same collection of what the NWO wants us to hear/see. So far, the foreign press is not so inhibited and is often openly critical of US bumbling in foreign affairs, Bubba's alleged (alledged?) cocaine habit and criminal behaviour, --likewise critical of all fools. Where does this lead? Well, we've probably peaked on freedom; the rest is downhill as our "non-elected" government degenerates to deploying more and more thought control to maintain the oligarchic fascist form of what Jefferson thought they were creating as a representative republic. I for one enjoy tweaking their nose, but it only stiffens their resolve to squash me/us/whatever. How do you show resolve without being in their face? most regulation is created to "eliminate" abuse of a "public" privilege; unfortunately, we all suffer "collateral damage" to use their term. does voluntary compliance work? unfortunately, no. where does that leave us? confrontation, I guess. preserve our advantage as long as we can. we all know from münchen that Clement Atlee made a fool of himself appeasing Hitler for a false peace. might as well carry on with what we do best: rape, pillage, and burn... a scorched earth policy....