-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199711111642.KAA20562@wire.insync.net>, on 11/11/97 at 10:42 AM, Eric Cordian said:

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Ruling that the right to a free press doesn't cover a how-to-kill book, a federal appeals panel said the families of a hired killer's victims may sue the publisher of a book that he consulted.

Well another example of the "domino theory" at work. :( first the 10th fell then the 9th fell the 4th, 5th & 6th fell in rapid sucession after that the 7th is gone as is the 8th now the 1st. Well we have the 3rd at least :) Not very practical in the moder era but who know, when they finaly get around to dispatching the military to go door to door to confiscate the guns then need to quarter them in individule's homes will arise and then the 3rd will fall too. God bless Amerika!! - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNGiUjY9Co1n+aLhhAQFy3QP/amwFR+oDsDh32YFXfIzladweVCNlt/I+ 3pI2Q4JlCfryriqBqmjy+aKVVIwd/ptXc6+I2iSFm1UGZSw8q9tdpH1stUM2Sh8j yVf1CKCqngmpXuXPsWw7qoiBIFucakvdL3TwOCp+N3tjwcGXAAi72r7A/HKWmx+f fD5knWzxM5g= =+fSp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

This ruling is interesting. Does the First Amendment jurisprudence generelly require strict scrutiny in civil as it does in criminal action? In other words, does a plaintiff in a civil case have to prove that the statement was intended to incite imminent lawless action to recover damages like the goverment in a criminal case?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 11:21 am -0500 on 11/11/97, Tim May wrote:

Maybe a book about fighting for liberty provided "abstract advocacy speech so explicit in its palpable entreaties to violent crime" (and so it is unprotected, according to the courts).

And then he wrote:

But in many ways, this is good news. The war is coming faster than I thought.

The judge in this case has committed a capital crime.

"Please, Br'er Fox, don' throw me into that briar patch!"??? Sheesh. Remind me not to lock myself up, all alone, with a bunch of live ammo and almost no one to talk to but the internet, in an isolated hilltop country-house-cum-cypherfortress, in the most liberal county, in the most liberal state, in the world's last (crypto)socialist superpower. I mean, Tim, I have to admit I'm just as nervous as the next guy about being next to soft targets these days, but I almost find myself agreeing with other people, people you would respect otherwise, who are saying that you're making yourself the greatest friend that Reno and Freeh ever had. A vertiable poster boy for statism if there ever was one. And so on. I figure the state, particularly the guys who work at the pointy end of the bayonet, is kind of like Mongo in "Blazing Saddles": You shouldn't shoot at them, because it only makes them mad. Unless, of course, they start shooting at you first, and you have no other choice. Which, by the way, *you're* not doing, even though you assert the opposite. "Mooning the ogre" of public opinion, as Stuart Alsop puts it, and forcing a showdown with people who would normally not give a shit about you, isn't going to do you, or anyone who agrees with you, any good. It's like spitting on a cop as he walks by and then marvelling at his suprising ferocity when he beats you to a bloody pulp... I mean, even the best Heinlien hero knows you don't piss off the bad guys when there are more of them than you, especially when they know where you live. And, frankly, I even disagree with Tim's analysis of the situation. It took a long time, all the way from the treaty of Westphalia to the Declaration of Independence, for the modern nation-state to finally overthrow aristocracy and demonstrate its superiority in the allocation of force. After that, it took less than a generation, with the French revolution and Napoleon, for the nation-state to show all the really bad things it can do with that power. I expect that, even with "net-years" and Moore's Law, it'll be quite a while yet for the cryptoanarchy/Market Earth/geodesic society/whatever "revolution" to finish, and, when it does, the result will probably be much less violent than a SWAT raid on Tim's Way Cool Latter-Day Farnham's-Freehold in the Santa Clara mountains. What it'll mean *after* that, I leave as an excercise for the reader. Tim's got just as good an idea about it as Duncan, or me, or anyone else with (in my case, at least) a hyperactive imagination and too much time to use it. Frankly, it would be nice to have Tim around to watch it happen, or at least to think about it some more. If he's got nothing better to do, that is. On the other hand, Tim, I suppose, there *is* Bosnia as a prima facie counterexample, and I bet that *that* little fandango probably started with a bunch of "freedom fighters" like the one you fancy yourself to be these days. Frankly, if that's the model you want to follow, Tim, I would suggest that you actually move somewhere where other folks who think like you live already, instead of shoving your favorite Mac-10 up the nose of every statist treehugger you bump into out there in lotusland. Maybe (ironically) the "Blue Heaven" neighborhoods in Idaho, or somewhere in southeast Nevada, or Arizona, or Wyoming, or Montana. I like the North Fork of the Flathead, myself, but that's just 'cause the country's so damn pretty. "Amerika", such as it is, is still a pretty big place. I bet if you go to a place like that, where intellegent people appreciate guns and freedom, you won't have to clean the snot off the end of your gunbarrel so often, and, you might have some help when -- or if -- Mongo's Minions eventually *do* burn their way through your steel-reinforced front door. I also think using a nym for this kind of inflamitory stuff might also be more useful, first amendment, or no. Write code, not laws, and all that. Certainly the tools are there, now, and, if they're not to your liking, you could probably build (or buy :-)) a few of your own. Even Patrick Henry had um, common sense, about such things. Finally, Tim, it seems to me like you've just gotten bored. You've figured out how to work, and save, and invest the proceeds, so that now you're never going to have to work again a day in your life unless you want to. Something most of us, myself included, will never learn, I bet. But now, it's as if you want to risk it all, and make your life, um, interesting, again, by, as Kesey once said, "starring in your own movie". And, it's a bad movie, Tim. With all the good ideas you have about freedom, and cryptography on free networks, and the way the world's probably going to turn out as a result, not to mention the influence you've had on the way the world thinks about such things, it's a shame that this particular movie of yours has such a cliche', almost cringingly liberal, 1970's anti-hero in it, ala "Marathon Man", or "Day of the Condor", or "Butch Cassidy". Or "Bonnie and Clyde". Frankly, I liked Lazarus Long, or even old Farnham himself, a lot better. Hell, even a better, more libertarian (Nazi uniforms? Sheesh^2...), remake of "Starship Troopers" would be preferrable to the scipt you've written yourself. At least Johnny Rico walks away when the bugs are finished coming out of the bug-hole... Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNGi+w8UCGwxmWcHhAQG9YwgAsWlAnfiwYehaRy1UO1SoR8oEHCKUdA8U /V88ILq31rEAj9E0VCCk3ZIZjZhlWbgGGRRpvRtQnkhyuecE55ZGlO8Osfd9JIFc Po8SlbrKfZksOSGnwVkBrN+O23PGFRwq3R1KzkuwKzlLqcmWXJKlu7k8s8Lbi7SU KcTy7si/xYm2KUseebHABNBcqoAqC3OGcxSb8h6nwS5guM+1c9ONytBItluoSVbW DC17h7p2ozLmpltxeNbwK/18/HRVHR57pcONRChocFsI9iDvZm129Bpgqk4cHDyP UloS6rEvHVY5zpJM5bNK6d73Y2Mq4+yib81enDs0Z2VO2wwNOYDkww== =2p7g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Yes. It's 5.5 . Resistance is futile... ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: http://www.fc98.ai/

Here are two portions I found interesting:

the district court granted Paladin's motion for summary judgment and dismissed plain- tiffs' claims that Paladin aided and abetted Perry, holding that these claims were barred by the First Amendment as a matter of law. Because long- established caselaw provides that speech - - even speech by the press - - that constitutes criminal aiding and abetting does not enjoy the protection of the First Amendment, and because we are convinced that such caselaw is both correct and equally appli- cable to speech that constitutes civil aiding and abetting of criminal conduct (at least where, as here, the defendant has the specific pur- pose of assisting and encouraging commission of such conduct and the alleged assistance and encouragement takes a form other than abstract advocacy), we hold, as urged by the Attorney General and the Department of Justice, that the First Amendment does not pose a bar to a finding that Paladin is civilly liable as an aider and abetter of Perry's triple contract murder... the district court's grant of summary judgment in Paladin's favor is reversed and the case is remanded for trial.

Thus, in a case indistinguishable in principle from that before us,

the Ninth Circuit expressly held in United States v. Barnett, 667 F.2d

835 (9th Cir. 1982), that the First Amendment does not provide pub-

lishers a defense as a matter of law to charges of aiding and abetting

a crime through the publication and distribution of instructions on

how to make illegal drugs. In rejecting the publisher's argument that

there could be no probable cause to believe that a crime had been

committed because its actions were shielded by the First Amendment,

and thus a fortiori there was no probable cause to support the search

pursuant to which the drug manufacturing instructions were found,

the Court of Appeals explicitly foreclosed a First Amendment defense

not only to the search itself, but also to a later prosecution:

To the extent . . . that Barnett appears to contend that he is

immune from search or prosecution because he uses the

printed word in encouraging and counseling others in the

commission of a crime, we hold expressly that the first

amendment does not provide a defense as a matter of law to

such conduct.

-Declan

At 3:36 pm -0500 on 11/11/97, Tim May wrote:

...

Remind me not to lock myself up, all alone, with a bunch of live ammo and almost no one to talk to but the internet, in an isolated hilltop ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ad hominem becomes you, Bob.

A variation of the old "get a life" put down of anyone whose opinions one disagrees with.

I call 'em as I see 'em, Tim. Actually, I would probably call what I said there an "amateur psychological diagnosis". :-). Your mileage may vary. That's what I get for indulging in the pseudoscience of psychology, I suppose. I *do* know what an ad hominem is, however, and you missed on that one. I should note that there are quite a few in your reply below, if you're interested in further elucidation of the concept... Anyway, I was stating, in the quote above, my opinion about the possible cause of your sense of impending doom, doom which I personally find to be unfounded generally (see the quote in my .sig, below, for details), except, of course, in unusual circumstances, which you seem intent on percipitating upon yourself.

So we're back to the old "if we won't restrain our opinions, Reno and Freeh will have to."

Fair enough. However, in an era of no-cost "technology transfers" of military training and hardware to your local police, of marines shooting down shepherds who are in the wrong place at the wrong time and thinking nothing of it, and of the entrapment and armed seige of people who knock a few inches off a shotgun, the saying "the squeaky wheel gets greased" is probably truer now than ever. Remember my old Neitsche joke about the rabbits demanding their rights and the lions asking to see their claws? You, Tim, or anyone else we know, even those with arsenals :-), are but mere ferrets in comparison. In that case, I'd say it's better to be more clever, and to avoid, than to try to confront, the lions.

I say what I think.

And so you do. Lots of people do. In this country, they don't go to jail or dissapear or get killed for it as easily as they do elsewhere, but you can bet it happens. Particularly when they threaten, even in an elliptical fashion, the lives of people like judges. :-). Mr. Bell seems to be our canonical proof of that result at the moment, and all he did was threaten the tax man. Once you have their attention, all it takes is one trumped-up charge and, with armed resistance to that charge, poof... One more "armed extremist" goes away, constitution, due process, or no.

Recently I was using my ComSec 3DES phone to talk privately (with one of those rare persons, according to Bob, that I talk to outside of the Net) with someone. He sent me later saying, "Nice talking to you this evening (afternoon, for you) and nice to be able to speak freely. What used to be taken for granted is now a luxury. <sigh>"

Glad to know that you can afford the luxury yourself. Buy a few more, and drive the price down for the rest of us. :-). Clearly, the nosy nation state has replaced the nosy switchboard operator, and, yes, the consequences are much more serious, and I think both should be defeated by technical, and not legal means. I also think that privacy is more economical than surviellance, especially in finance. Meanwhile, on a *recorded* prison telephone line, a cocaine kingpin makes $400million arranging dope deals, in traceable phone calls to *Medellin*, with complete impunity. All because there's just too much recorded information to monitor it all, even on only three little prison phone lines, for Club Fed to process. And, to make my point again, you can bet that *all* this guy's phone calls are listened to now, even if he did turn state's evidence when someone, someone who was not listening to his calls, mind you, snitched on him. So, remember Mongo, again. *If* you get his attention, he *will* punch your horse's lights out. And, of course, if you shoot him, you'll make him mad. It's funny, of course, but Idi Amin was funny, too. The problem is being able to laugh at these guys from a safe distance, which is hard to do if they now know who and where you are, and they've decided they don't like you anymore. Fidel reached out and touched several people in the US in the late 70's, for instance. One was in DC, right under some apparent federal surviellance.

More over the top nonsense from Bob.

Well, over the top, I'll except. It's what I'm good at, after all. :-). "Nonsense" I would normally except also, but not in this case. Your first ad hominem, by the way.

I've done nothing that will "force a showdown." Precisely what crimes, Bob, have I committed? Cite a charge. Even a single one.

You've just threatened a judge in public, among other things, over the past 24 hours alone, and, even if you haven't done it "technically", "technically" doesn't count when one of Mongo's bunch decides they have "probable cause" to bust your door down, shoot their way in, and plant "evidence" on your body. Or, more probably, like they did with the shepherd kid in Texas, or Mrs. Weaver in Ruby, or Waco, or the preacher who died in a no-knock here in Boston, they'll just say "Woops. Our mistake. Sorry. Never mind."

...

On the other hand, Tim, I suppose, there *is* Bosnia as a prima facie counterexample, and I bet that *that* little fandango probably started with a bunch of "freedom fighters" like the one you fancy yourself to be these days.

More typical Bob Hettinga insult arguments. You ought to form a club with Kent Crispin, Detweiler, and Vulis.

Ah. Now *that* last bit was a genuine ad hominem. Congratulations. (Notice, class, the direct attack on personal charactistics, without reference to the merits of the argument at hand... Woops. So sorry. Double score, Tim. An ad homenim, *with* a red herring thrown in. Score: 2 ad hominems, 1 Red Herring) Actually, Tim, I think you *do* fancy yourself a freedom fighter. Certainly most of us think of you that way, these days. Clearly your comments lately seem to indicate it. You've made veiled intimations of impending confrontation for, well, months, now, if not longer. Your attempt to get arrested when Clinton went to Stanford this fall, something about hoping to refuse to identify yourself if asked by Secret Service, I think, is a good example of this. More recently, your thinly disguised threats against anyone with authority to throw you in jail is the same kind of thing. I don't think there's any doubt that you're trying very hard, at least in your conversations on the net, to test that arsenal of yours some evening. More to the point, I think what I said about Bosnia makes perfect sense, even if I don't believe it's going to happen. The net result of a population forceably homogenized for more than 75 years and then armed is something like Bosnia. In the case of the US, we have a population which was homogeneous and armed, then gradually disarmed and "diversified" with various political policies and subsidies. Now, if you rearm those people, or more precisely, they rearm themselves in attempt to keep themselves from being disarmed further (your posting yesterday about the gun show was a case in point), we could get another Bosnia, or Somalia, or whatever. Clearly it's better to let Americans keep their guns, and stop trying to "diversify" them. I mean, Stalin went out and deliberately created these "ethnic" republics where none existed before, (or where at least the czars had done a reasonable job of repressing ethnicity for centuries before that) and we all know what that "diversity" program did to the Soviet Union after communism, and even to Russia today in places like Chechnaya. Fortunately, lots of the former Soviet "republics", Kazakhstan, Mongolia (though not officially a Soviet republic still a vassal state), etc., are pretty stable. Homogeneous populations, again. Maybe, at some point, Americans will realize that they're more alike than they're different -- as anyone who's gone to Europe or Africa will attest -- this "diversity" stuff will be put aside, and whether they're armed or not won't really matter. Certainly turn-of-20th-century America was armed to the teeth, mostly homogeneous, and quite peaceable. The modern Swiss are, as well. However, I wonder what modern American "freedom fighters" are going to do when they have the Talaban-like ability to hold turf at the point of a gun and try to create the "homogeneity" of their preference, like they did in Afganistan or Bosnia. May we live in interesting times, indeed. And, *that's* what I was getting at, with the Bosnia as alternate model, bit, above. Giving your implicit argument its due, I suppose, even though I don't think it's going to happen in this country. I think that communication and computers will eventually create stable, and probably homogeneous, societies, without the need for nation-states, or armed political/ethnic enclaves, or whatever. Force, like mass and energy, will be conserved, but it won't be applied giant industrial glops, like we do it today. :-). Now, Tim, is over the top. Whether it's nonsense, of course, I leave for others to judge. So, my overall point is, Tim, that you shouldn't try so hard to be a crash test dummy for the new world order. Throwing rocks at cop cars is great fun when you're say, 12, but doing it when you're 40 can do bad things to your permanent physical health in rather short order. Revolution is really a young man's game. I mean, even the IRA guys want to retire... Whoops. I used metaphors, with those rocks and crash test dummies. Gotta watch that, because...

You want to document a case where I've shoved a Mac-10 up anyone's nose, let alone a tree hugger?

The error of my metaphor coupled with your own deliberate literal interpretation? I thought so. Red Herring. (Score: 2 ad hominems, 2 red herrings.) Besides, I sincerely doubt that you even *have* something as cheezy as a Mac-10. :-).

Or is talking now the same as shoving a gun in someone's nose? (You'd be surprised how many liberals think this is so, even some judges who just ruled against Evil Assault Literature.)

Ah. Now you understand the metaphor. I feel better now. No, Tim, I think that liberals *will* see it as free speech. They just will decide that some speech, to paraphrase Orwell, should be freer than other speech. I think that the guys with guns that they hire to enforce their pseudoscientific views of the world will just shoot you for pissing them, maybe even their bosses, off. That would be a drag. Heck, they probably won't be atavistic enough to call it "treason", or something.

Bob, get back on your medications.

Another ad hominem. (Score: 3 ad hominems, 2 red herrings)

...

Frankly, I liked Lazarus Long, or even old Farnham himself, a lot better. Hell, even a better, more libertarian (Nazi uniforms? Sheesh^2...), remake of "Starship Troopers" would be preferrable to the scipt you've written yourself.

I don't form or express my opinions to have you like me more than these fiction characters you're obsessed with.

Of course you don't. However, it doesn't keep me from having opinions of my own about you, either. :-). Or other folks having opinions about you. Including people who agree with you, except when you insist on standing up to have your head chopped off for lack of something better to do. Most of us have seen that movie, and we don't like the ending.

Get a life, Bob.

(Score: 4 ad hominems, 2 red herrings) Wait... Is there an *echo* in here? Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: http://www.fc98.ai/

On Tue, Nov 11, 1997 at 11:18:49PM -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:

At 3:36 pm -0500 on 11/11/97, Tim May wrote:

...

...

Remind me not to lock myself up, all alone, with a bunch of live ammo and almost no one to talk to but the internet, in an isolated hilltop ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ad hominem becomes you, Bob.

A variation of the old "get a life" put down of anyone whose opinions one disagrees with.

I call 'em as I see 'em, Tim. Actually, I would probably call what I said there an "amateur psychological diagnosis". :-). Your mileage may vary. That's what I get for indulging in the pseudoscience of psychology, I suppose.

Speaking of which... I found it quite interesting to note Tim's reaction when Igor poked fun of him. You may recall that Igor baited the trap by innocently asking about the "technical" nature of Tim's "defense system", then gently drawing it a little tighter with some droll comments about fighting off the assault forces when you were sleeping in the nude. By the time Tim realized he had been suckered a rollicking funny thread developed, and at least some of the humor was clearly at Tim's expense. Shortly thereafter Tim started laying down heavy angry shit -- recall the post about the bleached bones of the demonstrators being left to starve, handcuffed to the LLNL fences?...and the angry character of his posts has continued to the present. This is part of Tim's personal appeal, I guess -- it's obvious that beneath all the bluster is a very fragile ego that is easily wounded. There are other signs, as well -- you mention them: the dark hints about great and fearsome things to come, the recurring oblique comparisons between himself and the "founding fathers", the "I dare you" runs against the limits of legal safety. Tim, like many, rationalizes his simmering anger by blaming it all on the "bastids in the gubmit". But it doesn't take much insight to see that there is something a little deeper going on, something a little sad. [...]

...

More typical Bob Hettinga insult arguments. You ought to form a club with Kent Crispin, Detweiler, and Vulis.

Ah. Now *that* last bit was a genuine ad hominem.

Sure was! [....]

...

Get a life, Bob.

(Score: 4 ad hominems, 2 red herrings)

Wait... Is there an *echo* in here?

Kent "The Toto Mongrel Made Me Do It" Krispin

At 11:18 pm -0500 on 11/11/97, Robert Hettinga wrote: Feh. A typo.

Now, Tim, is over the top. Whether it's nonsense, of course, I leave for ^ that, ^ others to judge.

Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: http://www.fc98.ai/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 11:19 am -0500 on 11/12/97, Tim May wrote:

There seems to be an unhealthy desire by some to "armchair psychoanalyze" the motivations and inner motivations of others. In recent days, me.

Guilty. Too much data. Too little pattern. Of course, the definition of "unhealthy" is always relative, especially in a pseudoscience like psychology.

Detweiler used to rant for pages and pages about my state of mind and how my words were "torturing" him, and on and on. This was an unhealthy fixation on me, in my not so humble opinion.

Now Hettinga seems to have again fallen into this state.

Yup, Tim. That's it. Me. Detweiller. Same people. "Movies. Laundry. Same thing." as the MoviePhone commercial goes...

Though he styles himself as an astute observer of human behavior, he fails utterly to persuade with his insults and whinings.

Well, I think you've got me beat on the insult front so far in *this* little bit of repartee, Tim. As for whining, I suppose it's relative. I mean, when all you can hear is mortar cuncussions, I bet *everything* sounds like whining. If you can hear anything at all.

Bob, get a life. Go do something useful. Make some real money.

Now, Tim. Are you *jealous* of my impecuniosity? I have to admit, I have more fun than money these days, but things *are* getting interesting. Fortunately, you seem to be making great strides to solve that problem you have with our asset disparity... I guess chips on the sholder, mountaintop fortresses, overwhelming firepower, and, someday, a team of defense lawyers (if you live that long) are God's way of telling you that you have too many assets and not enough people around you?

Just stop whining about how I'm not sending you money to finance your "Geodesic Hothouse Enterprises," or whatever, startups.

Well, fortunately, e$lab's doing fine without such sage counsel. We're spec'ing the first product, hopefully by the end of this week, and, we're hoping to announce before, of course, FC98 in February. And, actually, you were right, and we listened to you. We don't *need* that much money to bootstrap these first few products (the technology of peer-to-peer internet transactions with a 3 orders of magnitude cost reduction goal seems to work quite nicely on the investment side of the balance sheet, as well), so we might not need to go the "hothouse" route at all. At the moment, e$lab looks more like a good old fashioned investment/trading partnership than anything else. And, I'll admit that your stinging rebuke on the subject a few weeks ago got me thinking about what I was doing and how to do it better. Also, I wasn't asking *you* for money at all. I was suggesting that you might want to put your money where your mouth was, technology wise, which is what more of us should be doing. Those of us with money, anyway. :-). However, if you've been saving it up shoot it out with John Law, and, if you survive, to bail yourself out and skip the country someday to continue the revolution from Bolivia, I think I see the grand design, now. :-).

And just stop whining about how we all ought to tone down our words and so not make Big Brother angry.

I've already answered this in a post which crossed with this one, so I'll leave this little troll alone. Of course, Tim, in turn, I wish you would stop "whining" about how the end of the world is neigh. You're sounding positively millenialist, these days. Or, now that I think about it, you sound a lot like I did in college when the Russians invaded Afganistan and, horrors, Ronald Reagan looked like he was going to be elected. I thought all the bombs were going to drop the day Uncle Ronnie got the button. At that point, I had too much reputation capital (not to mention hashish :-)) and not enough people around telling me I was paranoid, if not just stone batshit. I had at least 20 people working with me on various anti-war projects, all thinking the way I did. RDF=13, Data=0. Learned what "Liberal Until Graduation" meant, I did... So, Tim, in that vein, are you an anarchist until after the firefight? Fortunately, I made my mistakes at an age when I could afford them. Cheers, Bob Hettinga -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5 iQEVAwUBNGoAMMUCGwxmWcHhAQGX/AgAmSPD3BafLSQZMqXywbiwoziVAwXcguaY KpCF7XxPcm5X8VoUlGrtAdGUj8UnRJ9i6C1SP5maTV/MixTUYxZfzi8KvRlXjtv6 M6mmsIOGbiKHC9TThrqIrmr3NK4o5xaxHGFN1rKmZO0941aQpJRQBqfHBqOoXFDE HuipJXfYTLPeUcbuwl/yhHISxIuv1EVav6OpY8X6Y3h2RH+PWH9ZoYQA9R1xnee2 GFGS9qzyGjH3si/XqFlVQ0gutKONNABArglsW9i94ml4v6P4rndNLGdqtxaHI8ve j+yNe1aJKvkgw85ozCQ01JzRIQj58oi6WoWkSqg6XvTzmTPfQ1GRmg== =LqnQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: http://www.fc98.ai/