~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, The Sunday San Francisco Examiner had an article about how simple it is to make a pipe bomb. It was syndicated from the Dallas Morning News. In the article a "federal bomb expert" opined: They're probably one of the more common explosive devices that are encountered. That's because the pipe not only provides a container, but fragments into sharapnel." ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now I don't know what takes to qualify one as a "bomb expert," but the standards must be pretty low. The reason hand grenades look like pineapples is because it's very difficult to get metal to fragment unless it is scored or otherwise predisposed to come apart in little pieces. What I've been told is that a pipe bomb just peals open at it's weakest place and otherwise stays in one piece. Don't know, but that's what I've heard. Makes sense to me. To put the fear of god in the readers the article dutifully chants the following mantra: Detailed instructions for making pipe bombs and other explosive devices are available for sources as varied as anti-government publications [what about GOVERNMENT publications?], pamphlets sold at gun shows and the Internet. Are we surprised? S a n d y P.S. On an odder note, the same paper had an article entitled, "Two-headed baby born in Tijuana." The article reported, "...the child (sic) had been born with two spinal columns and two heads" One of the more bizarre statements was, "It's not clear whether un-named girl--or girls--are Siamese twins." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
The Sunday San Francisco Examiner had an article about how simple it is to make a pipe bomb. It was syndicated from the Dallas Morning News. In the article a "federal bomb expert" opined:
They're probably one of the more common explosive devices that are encountered. That's because the pipe not only provides a container, but fragments into sharapnel." ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now I don't know what takes to qualify one as a "bomb expert," but the standards must be pretty low. The reason hand grenades look like pineapples is because it's very difficult to get metal to fragment unless it is scored or otherwise predisposed to come apart in little pieces. What I've been told is that a pipe bomb just peals open at it's weakest place and otherwise stays in one piece. Don't know, but that's what I've heard. Makes sense to me.
You're right. A pipe bomb isn't even technically a "bomb". It just has various combustible chemicals within a sealed container. The explosive force is just due to the high pressure released. Nails and screws can be used as shrapnel, but if the container was scored, the explosive force would be weakened. Newer hand grenades have scored wire wrapped around the core so when it explodes, the container is shattered and the wire fragments fly out at very high speeds. I would guess that these are more powerful than the "pineapple" grenades. -- Mark PGP encrypted mail prefered Key fingerprint = d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/
On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Mark M. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
but the standards must be pretty low. The reason hand grenades look like pineapples is because it's very difficult to get metal to fragment unless it is scored or otherwise predisposed to come apart in little pieces. What I've been told is that a pipe bomb just peals open at it's weakest place and otherwise stays in one piece. Don't know, but that's what I've heard. Makes sense to me. You're right. A pipe bomb isn't even technically a "bomb". It just has various combustible chemicals within a sealed container. The explosive force is just due to the high pressure released. Nails and screws can be used as shrapnel, but if the container was scored, the explosive force would be weakened. Newer hand grenades have scored wire wrapped around the core so when it explodes, the container is shattered and the wire fragments fly out at very high speeds. I would guess that these are more powerful than the "pineapple" grenades.
I don't know about "more powerful", but they are more effective, and IIRC a little smaller & lighter. Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@smoke.suba.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:17:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: BOMB PLANS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
C'punks,
[usefull info deleted]
S a n d y
P.S. On an odder note, the same paper had an article entitled, "Two-headed baby born in Tijuana." The article reported, "...the child (sic) had been born with two spinal columns and two heads" One of the more bizarre statements was, "It's not clear whether un-named girl--or girls--are Siamese twins."
Technicly, Siamese twins must have certain ammounts of organs independantly, and certain amounts share, within a certain amount of body space. Anything else is just unsplit twins. ;) --Deviant Old MacDonald had an agricultural real estate tax abatement. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMfxJnjAJap8fyDMVAQH7xQf8CC/qzRa76hW8G8Q9a4/To2i0Bi4vwWuT JmQfaBBLPdAHZFhBLKvl2E0YtB9Pa+oRu4/G2/4UAqNhlH1skOeabW7MzQZQg7L7 n9+is8rkgIA9Kv8iNMP16Co3goTRQRu/PbAjB77Fyc5A6f/B3y4UI8K4twuPyJSz bC9w6OU/uRyiUF8VaEPe2zBqTrh90je17Il90sLgmHp+whNU/3a01kGIVK15ji3B qdhVXxRIgCK1UF6fh38KjVWV52/GVt1xXuEOM/14bknhZHNyHfjHQlj4aMGuWGyY SqJtpo1dJ6yi9jkA7Qn2nkKb+rq/BK+ciMlrzRJDCwY0IhqRveL16g== =q2Xk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: sandfort@crl.com (Sandy Sandfort) Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, scrm Subject: Terrorists are adult Kids? Sandy Sandfort wrote:
The Sunday San Francisco Examiner had an article about how simple it is to make a pipe bomb. It was syndicated from the Dallas Morning News. In the article a "federal bomb expert" opined:
They're probably one of the more common explosive devices that are encountered. That's because the pipe not only provides a container, but fragments into sharapnel." ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now I don't know what takes to qualify one as a "bomb expert," but the standards must be pretty low. The reason hand grenades look like pineapples is because it's very difficult to get metal to fragment unless it is scored or otherwise predisposed to come apart in little pieces. What I've been told is that a pipe bomb just peals open at it's weakest place and otherwise stays in one piece. Don't know, but that's what I've heard. Makes sense to me.
It depends on the quality of metal the pipe is made from. If it has a lot of carbon the pipe indeed can split into small pieces. Also, as far as I remember, if you heat the pipe red and then throw it into water and repeat this process several times, the metal may become very fragile. Plz correct me if I am wrong. Also, nothing prevents you from making grenade-like marks on the pipes. It is very easy if you have the right instruments. While in high school in Russia, I was taught how to work with metal and indeed making these kind of marks is one of the most trivial exercises. BTW, almost all male kids in russia experiment with bomb-making, rocket-making, explosives and so on. Once I was going to school #57 in a tram and a small bomb exploded right in my school bag. It was made from Ammonium triiodide which is really unstable. Everyone in the tram was really surprised and I was really pissed off. In the hindsight it was fairly dangerous and some of my friends were hurt by bombs. HOWEVER, I have a theory that males never really grow up and continue playing toys 'til they die. I think that guns are also male toys, by the way. So the idea is, maybe if kids play enough with explosives WHILE THEY ARE KIDS, they would get enough of it and would not continue playing with them when they grow up (and become more dangerous). Like, I myself pretty much lost interest in building explosive devices and rocketry after 18. Since this country is too safe, kids do not get their share of danger and try to recoup it in adulthood. Which results in stupid terrorism. - Igor. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMfwxvsJFmFyXKPzRAQGSogQAluZwxBXFVU/AI9aZZyNOefpYc3Sumjka egpoZCnAWXPmmvGU0e+N8adYynQxgGWb2o6WTPFS3kNG8G3aEujMojlbJod1fGx9 VbD8TZjpi67jgmDJuDbXIWjgcVAzwjWmijn9L0x9h4nNTbyChvRxnwo2Q6vYoqir loniT0I/1dg= =DmH5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Igor Chudov @ home writes: : Once I was going to school : #57 in a tram and a small bomb exploded right in my school bag. : It was made from Ammonium triiodide which is really unstable. That reminds me of my father's little jiffy fly killer recipe: Prepare a batch of ammonium tri-iodide and while it is still moist mix it with granulated sugar and then spread that mixture on the surfaces where you expect the flies to land. The flies will be attracted to the sugar and then POOF! . . . . Trouble is I was always too impatient and in checking to see whether the ammonium tri-iodide was ready I would blow the stuff up in my face--which rather gave a new meaning to the phrase ``red-faced''. : So the idea is, maybe if kids play enough with explosives WHILE THEY ARE : KIDS, they would get enough of it and would not continue playing with them : when they grow up (and become more dangerous). Like, I myself pretty much : lost interest in building explosive devices and rocketry after 18. I suspect that there is a lot of truth in that. -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH Internet: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - ----PLEASE NOTE: NOTHING DESCRIBED IN THIS POST IS A PARTICURLY GOOD IDEA---- On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 22:36:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Igor Chudov @ home" <ichudov@algebra.com> To: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, scrm@manifold.algebra.com Subject: Terrorists are adult Kids?
To: sandfort@crl.com (Sandy Sandfort) Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, scrm Subject: Terrorists are adult Kids?
Sandy Sandfort wrote:
The Sunday San Francisco Examiner had an article about how simple it is to make a pipe bomb. It was syndicated from the Dallas Morning News. In the article a "federal bomb expert" opined:
They're probably one of the more common explosive devices that are encountered. That's because the pipe not only provides a container, but fragments into sharapnel." ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now I don't know what takes to qualify one as a "bomb expert," but the standards must be pretty low. The reason hand grenades look like pineapples is because it's very difficult to get metal to fragment unless it is scored or otherwise predisposed to come apart in little pieces. What I've been told is that a pipe bomb just peals open at it's weakest place and otherwise stays in one piece. Don't know, but that's what I've heard. Makes sense to me.
It depends on the quality of metal the pipe is made from. If it has a lot of carbon the pipe indeed can split into small pieces. Also, as far as I remember, if you heat the pipe red and then throw it into water and repeat this process several times, the metal may become very fragile.
Well, yes, but not just that... The force (and indeed the type of explosion) caused by a pipe bomb depends on several things, including (but not limited to), the type of pipe, the type of explosives, and the material used to seal the ends of the pipe. Idealy you would use gauged copper pipe (copper bends, tears, etc, comparitvly easy), with copper stopping at the end. The stopping needs to be the same material as the pipe, or else there will be significantly less gass-expansion when the bomb goes off (i.e., the end is the weekest point, you've made a rather shitty shotgun). One might also conceive of using actuall explosives (C4, Semtex, plasticene) in a pipe bomb, rather than the usual "matcheads and gunpowder" approach as suggested by many "cookbooks".
Also, nothing prevents you from making grenade-like marks on the pipes. It is very easy if you have the right instruments. While in high school in Russia, I was taught how to work with metal and indeed making these kind of marks is one of the most trivial exercises.
yes. but for best results these "alterations" to the pipe must be of uniform depth and spacing.
BTW, almost all male kids in russia experiment with bomb-making, rocket-making, explosives and so on. Once I was going to school
I wouldn't limit that to Russia. Every kid goes through their pyromaniacy stage, its really just a question of how good they are at it ;)
#57 in a tram and a small bomb exploded right in my school bag. It was made from Ammonium triiodide which is really unstable.
Everyone in the tram was really surprised and I was really pissed off.
I'll bet.
In the hindsight it was fairly dangerous and some of my friends were hurt by bombs. HOWEVER, I have a theory that males never really grow up and continue playing toys 'til they die. I think that guns are also male toys, by the way.
Hrmm.. that's a little extreme, dontcha think?
So the idea is, maybe if kids play enough with explosives WHILE THEY ARE KIDS, they would get enough of it and would not continue playing with them when they grow up (and become more dangerous). Like, I myself pretty much lost interest in building explosive devices and rocketry after 18.
Hrmm... I've always lived in the US, and I lost interest in that sort of thing when I was ~14...
Since this country is too safe, kids do not get their share of danger and try to recoup it in adulthood. Which results in stupid terrorism.
Bullshit. --Deviant The world is not octal despite DEC. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMfxfmjAJap8fyDMVAQENWgf+PYWEUe7j9s04Db+FbIB06HXbaJZG0PoW 12RIumrewpYgPTjOHpdMrQ404aNcxUo08MCHxF2U5+CekNgdVUzZ6BclxGzJ2m9T 4ppad/rViOyPopEGWYrZuZifmasglxLcnsQI+kl7WcN0zX9ZxH/GPpSzkhd4CUdn AwnFrB7SAfFm8uzqFEGrPUUywiZsDmsPdv2vYHfZMR22Z64Ceaq00gchg4kvvjya 8PA77glHxPZgWq6X6JijAEgL5isyHw7S+Iwa0VROoeGOTRiU/uxhTRAdHOVhfblr I/9yVCyQbZEx0yhqo2SU5i1p9/kbQNOCQwRULiCHR7QsZbBMx32RwQ== =mWR2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Igor Chudov writes:
Since this country is too safe, kids do not get their share of danger and try to recoup it in adulthood. Which results in stupid terrorism.
"There are, in my opinion, three terrible ages of childhood -- one to ten, ten to twenty, and twenty to thirty. And whatever age they are, there are very few of them who are not careless and nowadays, at least from my observation, are likely to remain so at least until they are thirty and perhaps longer." -Cleveland Amory, _The Best Cat Ever_ As an aside, I read an article on a home-schooling web page that put forth the theory that "teenagers" didn't really exist as a concept until comparatively recently - you were either a child or an adult, and "teenager" is a rather socially (and individually) destructive idea that came about in this latter half of the 20th century, leading to increased irresponsibility and a "childhood that never ends." -Ian, in his third childhood. (and I thought most people were lucky to have a second...) -- http://yakko.cs.wmich.edu/~frogfarm ...for the best in unapproved information "We think people like seeing somebody in a uniform on the porch." -US Postal spokeswoman, quoted in AP, 1/27/96. I don't know about you, but most people I know who saw someone in uniform on their porch would pull out the shotgun...
In the hindsight it was fairly dangerous and some of my friends were hurt by bombs. HOWEVER, I have a theory that males never really grow up and continue playing toys 'til they die. I think that guns are also male toys, by the way.
So the idea is, maybe if kids play enough with explosives WHILE THEY ARE KIDS, they would get enough of it and would not continue playing with them when they grow up (and become more dangerous). Like, I myself pretty much lost interest in building explosive devices and rocketry after 18.
An interesting theory, which my experience supports. I started with model rocketry, and then discovered that it was more fun to blow the rockets up, rather than have them come back to earth. (You don't have to sweat the construction details as much, either) About the time I turned 21, I lost interest in making exploding rockets and blowing craters in sand dumes. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Aladdin Systems <mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu> "We're not gonna take it/Never did and never will We're not gonna take it/Gonna break it, gonna shake it, let's forget it better still" -- The Who, "Tommy"
participants (8)
-
Damaged Justice -
ichudov＠algebra.com -
Mark M. -
Marshall Clow -
Peter D. Junger -
Sandy Sandfort -
snow -
The Deviant