Someone on this list, I forget who, has made numerous attempts at convincing us that pornography 'does no harm' to children. It is exactly at this point that I must draw a line. Studies have shown that an event which lasts even so much as three-tenths of a second, within five to ten minutes has produced a structural change in the brain.

More so than any other event lasting three-tenths of a second? I doubt it. Visual centers of the brain are certinly not predisposed to treat natural acts (even if depicted in somewhat unusal circumstances) as any different than any other visual stimuli. You're distorting the issue geratly here.

Exposure to porn causes actual brain damage, especially in a child.

In what sense? In the sense that the child's view of the world doesn't fully agree with yours? Or in the sense that there is actual physical damage to the brain that imparis the brains ability to function? I might believe that the former occurs, but not the latter.

So, keep protecting your porn-induced orgasms. That's exactly what happened with the Hitler youth, etc... After all, I'm sure it does help to blur the lines of reality.

Name calling really doesn't help contribute to a clear view of reality either.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #1: CORRUPT THE NATION'S YOUTH THE REALITY: Many of today's youth are grossly overprivileged, committed to fashion, physically flabby and lazy, and mentally undisciplined. If they don't [...] without effort and even without asking. And where do they learn such slovenliness? Just spend two hours in front of a television watching a random selection of situation comedies to find out. Unfortunately, kids who fit the above description usually model themselves after their parents. Such parasitic habits would not be tolerated in the former Soviet Union.

Who are you blaming for this? the media or the parents that are neglecting their duties as parents? If you want a child to have certain values and bleief structures, you must teach them those structures when they are young. You can't ignore them and expect the TV to do the job for oyu. If you're complaining about problems in the youth, the blame is squarely on the shoulders of parents who don't take care of their children or talk to them.

The prevailing attitude among today's pampered American youth is one of nihilism ( I am nothing, life has no meaning, I don't care) -- and for good reason. Over 75 percent of America's high school boys now think it's acceptable to rape a girl at any age. Wonder why anymore?

When these same children are increasingly treated in such a way as to have no control over their own lives, and when their parents seem to be driving the country into the ground, what kind of attitude do you expect? This attitude is a mirror of the prevailing attitude in the country, and those people that have become large-scale media figures. The fact that *Mike Tyson* can draw over $50 million dollars for a stupid boxing match does nothing to improve the attitudes of today's youth.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #2: CONTROL THE MASS MEDIA Homosexuality, abortion, violence, and contempt for all parental and governmental authority is the prevailing order of the day. A

IF this matieral offends you, eliminate it from your viewing habits, and instruct your children as to why these types of material are offensive. But you must remember, our Constitution was built upon the tenets of not enforcing one person's religious beliefs upon another. The Mayflower came over to avoid religious persecution, the Quakers came over for similar reasons. Ignoring the fact that they immediately went on a were no better, the country holds a tenet of reiligous tolerance. This extends to those areas where we may find things strange and offensive. Buddhists, (my spelling may be wrong, let me apologize now for that), etc, may have religious observances that just make no sense to you, some may even include ritual homosexuality. You can't seek ot impose your belief structure, (which is by far the minority int eh world) on the rest of the world!

particularly powerful form of media is represented by the so-called "arts community." Some latter-day "artists" actually make a pretty good living by mocking traditional values and Christianity. Consider Andres Sorrano's "Piss Christ" (a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine) or Robert Mapplethorp's photos, which include one showing a bullwhip protruding out of his rear end.

And you think the Ancient Greeks and Romans felt any different about the roots of the Christian religion? Look for the symbology behind the art. Perhaps the artist is trying to demonstrate his frustration with the religions today in their unquestioning belief in mythical figures and their lack of acceptance of a chanign culture? Maybe not, may he just wanted to make fun of the4 savior so he'd be guarnateed a chance to meet Satan.

This media bias is not a fantasy of a few right-wing whiners; this is cold, hard reality.

And the other cold-hard reality is that the media doesn't give a damn what th epeople think - even Labor Unions are left out of this so-called "left-wing bias". If you haven't realized it already, there are only 2 or 3 large voices left in the national media that aren't dominated by large businesses. (NY Times, Washington Post and Wall Stree Journal are my picks, Declan, feel free to clarify or expand if you want) Most of the rest of the TV stations, Radio stations and newspapers are owned by sseveral large comapnies, or the networks.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #3: ENCOURAGE PUBLIC INDIFFERENCE THE REALITY: Americans now vote at a lower rate than at any other time in our history. Every American knows how disenfranchised and powerless the average voter feels. The media constantly trumpet instances of hypocrisy and corruption in our government, despite the fact that we have the most open and honest political system in the world.

The reason the media questions the government and poitns out every instance of corruption they can find is so that we maintain our position of leadership in open and honest government. If they don't question things that seem wrong, things will only get worse. We *are* worse off now than 50 years ago. I live near Detroit, and go to school and work in Detroit. Detroit is a city suffering from a rampant and immovible city bureacracy that wont' change. This is something the local media is gradually attempting to expose and force to improve, because the area wants to see the city continue its improvemtns!

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #4: ENCOURAGE PUBLIC BICKERING THE REALITY: Never before have so many trivial issues captured so much air time. Major construction and other projects are halted due to sometimes trivial environmental concerns. Critical research which uses animals is halted or impeded by animal-rights groups. Sodomy rights, old- growth timber, anti-fur, and dozens of other Neoliberal causes (and the conservative backlash) cause more friction among our nation's people than in any other nation in the world.

Environmental concerns are almost never trivial. We can afford a few trivial environmental concerns if they help us stop wiping out the planet. We are running dangerously low in old-growth forest, El-Nino is a yearly occurence now when it used to occur once ever 7. We have serious global warming concerns at this point, and we have serious ground-water depletion and contamination problems. Animal rights activists would never have developed any public sympathy if it weren't for ridiculous abuses by cosmetic companies and drug companies. (Yes, they really did kill thousands of animals for studies of dubious value)

Meanwhile, the real issues of importance are either entirely neglected or paid weak lip service: Crime, poverty, hunger and, beneath all of them, the moral disintegration of our country. All of these have lead

ahahahahaha, these have gotten *much* more press and concern that any of the above issues. Any mention of these creates problems in *any* political campaign.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #5: SEIZE POWER, THEN CENSOR THE REALITY: If the slightest complaint against pornography in our schools is raised by concerned parents, People for the American Way (PAW), the ACLU, and other left-wing groups instantly shout "censorship!" But they say not a word when it is pointed out that the Bible and all mention of morality in textbooks have been ruthlessly hounded from the schools.

There is little to no porography being distribute in our schools. And the Supreme Court has rulesd that teaching *any* religion in public schools is tantamount to the government favoring that religion over others. If you can't see that this is a clear violoation of the Constitution, you're not reading it very well.

Communist atrocities which have killed more than 150 million all over the world are glossed over or ignored, but the most trivial international action by the United States brings immediate and forceful condemnation.

Oh, that's because we feel a moral responsibility to do the right thing when meddling in foreign affairs. Frequently we've screwed up and are attempting to correct for past mistakes. (Persian Gulf War, for example). There are limits to our influence in the world. WE can't force China to change policies, they could simply ignore us.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #6: BANKRUPT THE GOVERNMENT THE REALITY: The United States is flat broke. It is the number one debtor nation on earth, with a deficit of more than $5,000,000,000,000 (five trillion dollars). Social programs pay for everything from abortion and homosexual-run "sensitivity training sessions" to comprehensive sex education.

funny. Many economists have been saying that the debt really doesn't matter. The entire western world is debt-ridden in the governments, it hasn't really affected us a heck of a lot. Sounds like you're objecting to public money being spent on those things which offend you, while ignoring the public money spent on things which don't offend you.

They want us to fund family benefits for sodomites, a comprehensive health care plan that will inevitably turn into a Britain-like socialized horror, and "art" that is blatantly obscene.

So you don't object to family funded benefits for lesbians? (Note: I don't believe they qualify as sodomites even under the wierdest definitions) Oh, you also object to all the people who perform oral sex getting family benefits? doh! Giving family benefits to all people who are living together, sharing expenses and loving each other is a truly humane act. Denying them because you find their style of life or religion offensive is by far the more evil act. those who don't marry under state law because that law doesn't fit their religious belifs get punished under current laws. (Unless they work for IBM, Microsoft, The University of Michigan, etc)

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #7: DESTROY NATIONAL VALUES THE RULE: Cause a breakdown of indigenous national values. Destroy all tradition in preparation for the bright dawn of glorious Socialism. Ridicule religion, patriotism, and honesty. The people must be led to have only one interest: Themselves!

Funny. Whatever happened to Native American beliefs?

Why should there be any effort to take responsibility for one's own faults when "society" is so conveniently ready to take the blame for all one's sins? Society has made the sacrifice. So criminals, addicts, alcoholics, child molesters, wife beaters, and others can always blame their problems on society.

They don't have a very successful job at it. Most blame abusive parents, and get put in jail anyway.

We have truly become the "me generation."

Whose fault is that? I notice that now you seem to be for entitlement programs, or at least helping others. Make up your mind.

RULES FOR REVOLUTION #9 AND #10: UNDERMINE THE ARMED FORCES THE REALITY: Our country's armed forces consume a vast percentage of our gross national product. We possess the best and most advanced weapons systems in the world. But our armed forces are a joke for two reasons: (1) they are completely restrained in their actions by a hostile Congress, and

You want the US Military to wander the world picking fights? Like the Persian Gulf? Which was a Bush-administration fuck up in the first place? A cautious Congress is a much better deal than one that just blindly authorizes every military action. Remember the words of our founders (Damit, I forget which one): Avoid foreign entaglements. (Or something to that effect. I'm braindead and away from my reference materials right now)

(2) the armed forces have been saddled with such a bad reputation that it is virtually impossible to fill the ranks with volunteers, even in the new and streamlined armed services.

New and streamlined? bloated with intel and officers, low on combat troops. And this reputation is as much the military's fault as anything. I was talking to some active Marines 3 weeks ago. They all bitched about it and wished that they hadn't gone in. One sargeant, One Corporal, and one Army Sargeant. Most of the US has an enormous respect for the military. We just don't think we should use this power very often. We use it too much as it is.

Servicemen are ridiculed and denigrated at every turn. People say that, if you can't make it on the outside, you wind up in the armed forces.

Where do you get this shit?

Every serviceman is considered to be a useless gobbler of tax money.

umm. no. We learned that lesson sometime between world war I and World War II. I think it was sometime around December 7, personally. Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

Having Tourette Syndrome can sometimes be a burden, particularly when one goes through a long period where their obscene outbursts are serving no particular purpose. So it is refreshing when I come across situations where all of those huddled masses of naughty words, struggling to be free, can be expressed in a meaningful manner, thus living a productive life instead of being just wasted. Declan McCullagh wrote:

[Wow. First time I've ever been personally accused of being "a major reason for the downward spiral of society." --Declan]

Rookie...

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 11:53:27 -0500 From: Jodi Hoffman <jlhoffm@ibm.net> To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Why porn must be stopped at all costs.....

ALL: I've forgotten how long I've been on this email list. Maybe too long.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

As I wander back through all the posts on this list, it finally dawns on me what this is all about, this 'fight censorship' rhetoric. It's nothing more and nothing less than a lot of egotistical, self-serving brats who absolutely refuse to grow up, including you, Declan. Don't you realize that YOU are a major reason for the downward spiral of society?

Why do I get the feeling that this Dumb Cunt (TM) has 'all of the answers' for society and everyone in it, and is about to share them with us? Well, if she expects us to listen to the divine wisdom of her words from the mount, I guess she had better explain to us how we are just dirt under her feet, so that we will realize we need to listen and learn from her.

Instead of trying to protect children, you want to empower them.

The shame! The shame!

Even a moron knows that when you do so, that power has to be taken from someone.

Typo...*should* read "Only a moron knows..."

Unfortunately, that someone is the parent. I have to ask myself just how many on this list have children. Not many, I would say.

That's right...you ask AND answer the questions, and we'll just sit here and shut the fuck up.

Someone on this list, I forget who, has made numerous attempts at convincing us that pornography 'does no harm' to children.

Does "numerous attempts at convincing" translate to "expressed an opinion I disagreed with?"

It is exactly at this point that I must draw a line. Studies have shown that an event which lasts even so much as three-tenths of a second, within five to ten minutes has produced a structural change in the brain. Exposure to porn causes actual brain damage, especially in a child.

Good idea to make vague, unsubstantiated claims in this area. If you provided sources and references, someone might be able to throw them back in your face and laugh at you for being an ignorant sack of shit, using self-serving 'studies' to support untenable logic.

So, keep protecting your porn-induced orgasms.

Protecting? Hell, I strive to share them with as many people as possible.

That's exactly what happened with the Hitler youth, etc...

Uuhhh...you've got a 'study' to not-quote on this theory too, eh?

After all, I'm sure it does help to blur the lines of reality.

This makes even less sense than the last sentence. Are you trying to communicate propaganda that you don't fully understand? Perhaps you should just stick to slogans and sound-bytes, rather than trying to turn strings of disparate sentences into paragraphs. <end of 'Windup'>

===================== <and here comes the 'Pitch'>

Please PRINT THIS OUT and save for later reference. Rules number 1 through 7 have already been put into effect. Rule number 8 is currently being implemented. Numbers 9 and 10 are already in the beginning phases. If you're not yet convinced that you are contributing to the ruination of America, I would hope you will be by the time you finish reading this. Paul and Jodi Hoffman Weston, Florida

"When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side", I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already..." --Adolph Hitler, speaking about the schools and their indoctrination of the Hilterjugend (Hitler Youth Corps).

Are you positive this quote isn't from Eisenhower, in regard to the American public educational system?

================================================== LENIN'S BLUEPRINT FOR WORLD DOMINATION These 'Rules' are meant to be a loose parody of the Ten Commandments, and are particularly emphasized at the Lenin School of Political Warfare. They are practical rules that are being implemented all over the world -- with special emphasis on the strongest foe of Communism, the United States. Study these Rules very carefully. And then reflect upon what is happening in our society right now. Perhaps this list will provide answers to some of the questions that seemed --until now -- to have no answers. Lenin himself said that it didn't matter that three-fourths of the world be destroyed, just so the remnant were good Communists.

Are you sure this wasn't Nixon, taling about Vietnam and Democracy?

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #1: CORRUPT THE NATION'S YOUTH

Alright! Party time!

THE RULE: The future of any nation lies with its youth. So corrupt them; since religion teaches moral virtue, erode the churches and divert the young from religion. Make them interested only in themselves. Get them involved in drugs, alcohol, and sex. Get them addicted to privileges and rights.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: Many of today's youth are grossly overprivileged, committed to fashion, physically flabby and lazy, and mentally undisciplined. If they don't want to do something, they simply will not do it. And if they want to do something to indulge themselves, no law or moral standard will hold them back. They feel that they are entitled to the 'good things in life,' not as a reward for hard work, but as an expected gift, to be received without effort and even without asking. And where do they learn such slovenliness? Just spend two hours in front of a television watching a random selection of situation comedies to find out. Unfortunately, kids who fit the above description usually model themselves after their parents. Such parasitic habits would not be tolerated in the former Soviet Union. The prevailing attitude among today's pampered American youth is one of nihilism ( I am nothing, life has no meaning, I don't care) -- and for good reason. Over 75 percent of America's high school boys now think it's acceptable to rape a girl at any age. Wonder why anymore?

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: It sounds like the Dumb Cunt (TM) is suggesting that the former Soviet Union would have been a better place to raise our kids. Yep, go to any high school and all the boys talk about is going over to the maternity wing of the hospital and porking the little sluts as they exit the womb. Honest! There are _studies_ that show this!

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #2: CONTROL THE MASS MEDIA

THE RULE: Since the media shapes the minds of the people, infiltrate it and control it. Dominate television, radio, and the newspapers, and you control the minds of the people.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: It is quite obvious that traditional values are considered ridiculous to all branches of the media. Christians, clergy, and even Christ Himself are held up as objects of scorn and mocking laughter by television, motion pictures, radio, artists, and songwriters. In the place of decency and morality, a constant stream of Left-wing values is presented. Homosexuality, abortion, violence, and contempt for all parental and governmental authority is the prevailing order of the day. A particularly powerful form of media is represented by the so-called "arts community." Some latter-day "artists" actually make a pretty good living by mocking traditional values and Christianity. Consider Andres Sorrano's "Piss Christ" (a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine) or Robert Mapplethorp's photos, which include one showing a bullwhip protruding out of his rear end.

This media bias is not a fantasy of a few right-wing whiners; this is cold, hard reality. The extreme leftward tilt of the media has been documented by impartial observers and study managers, and has even been acknowledged by the press itself.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: It is unconscienable for the mass media to hold traditional values up to scorn, and mock Ra, Isis, and the many, many gods who were born of a virgin and died and rose after three days, the last of which was... hang on, his name is on the tip of my tongue...Jesus! Remember: left wing values =/= decency and morality Is the Dumb Cunt telling us that the Moral Majority, which would by definition be the "prevailing order of the day," are a bunch of queer, violent aborionists with contempt for parental authority? I _thought_ there was something weird about those fuckers. Those were non-Christian 'impartial' observers and study managers, right? <snicker-snicker-guffah!>

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #3: ENCOURAGE PUBLIC INDIFFERENCE

THE RULE: Cause the people to become disinterested in their own government and in world affairs. Get them to feel disenfranchised. Get them to ridicule and lose respect for government leaders.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: Americans now vote at a lower rate than at any other time in our history. Every American knows how disenfranchised and powerless the average voter feels. The media constantly trumpet instances of hypocrisy and corruption in our government, despite the fact that we have the most open and honest political system in the world.

Hold it! <laugh> <barf> <laugh> <barf> OK, continue...

The United States Supreme Court has wrested much of the State's power from them with judicial activism. This means that the people's representatives at the State level -- and therefore the people themselves -- have much less of a voice in their own government. On the state level, when people or local legislators finally manage to pass a conservative law regarding abortion, pornography or homosexuality, it is invariably challenged by Neo-liberal groups and struck down by higher courts, leading voters to ask themselves "Why bother participating in the process? We have no real voice in how things are run anyway!"

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: This is the communists doing this, again, right? Flouridated water, etc?

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #4: ENCOURAGE PUBLIC BICKERING

THE RULE: Divide the people into hostile groups. Divide them against themselves by getting them to squabble about inconsequential social issues.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: Never before have so many trivial issues captured so much air time. Major construction and other projects are halted due to sometimes trivial environmental concerns. Critical research which uses animals is halted or impeded by animal-rights groups. Sodomy rights, old- growth timber, anti-fur, and dozens of other Neoliberal causes (and the conservative backlash) cause more friction among our nation's people than in any other nation in the world.

Meanwhile, the real issues of importance are either entirely neglected or paid weak lip service: Crime, poverty, hunger and, beneath all of them, the moral disintegration of our country. All of these have lead to despair among those affected and encourage violent change at any cost, with no thought given to the kind of change being fought for. Naturally, when conservatives react to Neoliberal initiatives with concrete action, they are painted as agents of "divisiveness" and "disunity," further leading to the impression that American society is composed entirely of squabbling special-interest groups.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: If the Dumb Cunt (TM) and her right-wing bum-buddies would quit opposing environmental concerns, animal-rights, sodomy and dozens of other Neoliberal causes, then there wouldn't be all of that bickering now, would there? The TruthMonger of the fact is, the problem is that the "real issues of importance" *_ARE_* the subject of "concrete action" by those who have decided that their own conservative values should be legislated into governmental existence in the interests of punishing and imprisoning those with different values. I've never seen anyone imprisoned for _not_ smoking a joint. Think about _that_ you Ignorant Nazi Bitch!

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #5: SEIZE POWER, THEN CENSOR

THE RULE: Always preach true democracy, but seize power as completely and ruthlessly as possible. Vigorously censor viewpoints that conflict with ours.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: If the slightest complaint against pornography in our schools is raised by concerned parents, People for the American Way (PAW), the ACLU, and other left-wing groups instantly shout "censorship!" But they say not a word when it is pointed out that the Bible and all mention of morality in textbooks have been ruthlessly hounded from the schools.

Religion has literally disappeared from our children's textbooks. The media relentlessly suppress the reasoning behind conservative and traditional viewpoints while reporting their version of the facts and claiming "impartiality."

Artists' demand that the people pay for their atrocities. When the people balk, the 'artists' whine about censorship. All traditional groups and viewpoints are fair game for ridicule; yet when was the last time you saw any 'artist' making fun of sodomites or women?

In other words, the censorship is all one-way. And the "pluralism" valued so much by the Neoliberals is entirely unilateral (one way only).

Communist atrocities which have killed more than 150 million all over the world are glossed over or ignored, but the most trivial international action by the United States brings immediate and forceful condemnation.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: The Bibles were removed from the schools by the white Christian kids barricaded inside, thowing the Bibles at the niggers, as they tried to enter the school buildings. While waiting for the Bibles to be replaced the students had nothing left to read but the Constitution, and realized that the Bibles shouldn't have been there in the first place. I would like to remind the Dumb Cunt that there are no laws prohibiting her children from bowing and praying toward Mecca three times a day, and it would probably do them some good. The rest of the points above merely serve to illustrate that conservatives can't handle good acid, and should probably stick to booze.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #6: BANKRUPT THE GOVERNMENT

THE RULE: Encourage government extravagance on every front. Get the government deeply into debt. Get the people dependent on government by providing for their every need. This destroys their independence, motivation and strength.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: The United States is flat broke. It is the number one debtor nation on earth, with a deficit of more than $5,000,000,000,000 (five trillion dollars). Social programs pay for everything from abortion and homosexual-run "sensitivity training sessions" to comprehensive sex education.

We are the most truly Socialistic society on earth, a nation of people addicted to entitlements, unable to break away from the ample government teat, people who scream at the top of our lungs if any cutbacks in services are proposed.

And yet, the Neoliberals want to spend even more.

They want us to fund family benefits for sodomites, a comprehensive health care plan that will inevitably turn into a Britain-like socialized horror, and "art" that is blatantly obscene.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: I agree with the Dumb Cunt (TM) on this point. We need to fuck away our money on billions and billions of dollars of nuclear arms, weapons, surveillance equipment, secret agents and assassins, etc. A decent and moral society can only be ensured by buying 10,000 toilet seats for the Pentagon. (Jesus. You _really_are_ a Dumb Cunt (TM), aren't you?)

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #7: DESTROY NATIONAL VALUES

THE RULE: Cause a breakdown of indigenous national values. Destroy all tradition in preparation for the bright dawn of glorious Socialism. Ridicule religion, patriotism, and honesty. The people must be led to have only one interest: Themselves!

...

From the public schools to the pulpits of Christian "churches," moral relativism and situational ethics are the rule of the day. The highest goods are compassion, nonjudgmentalism, and tolerance. Any individual weakness is treated as a problem of society, not of the

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: person, and this relieves everyone of the responsibility of improving themselves.

Why should there be any effort to take responsibility for one's own faults when "society" is so conveniently ready to take the blame for all one's sins? Society has made the sacrifice. So criminals, addicts, alcoholics, child molesters, wife beaters, and others can always blame their problems on society.

We have truly become the "me generation."

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: The Dumb Cunt (TM) is beginning to degenerate into drooling and meaningless generalizations which make little sense.

RULE FOR REVOLUTION #8: ATTACK GUN OWNERSHIP

THE RULE: Control or register all firearms if possible. This will make their confiscation much easier when the time comes for revolution.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: When the Communist Revolution occurs in the United States, the last thing the Red Armies want to face is ten million determined and well-trained guerrillas (gun owners) taking potshots at them from around every corner.

The Communists don't want the equivalent of ten Afghanistans in the United States.

Although the objective of inhibiting gun ownership has not yet been completely met, there are dozens of bills and initiatives being submitted all over the country for compulsory gun registration, permitting, and other controls. The Second Amendment is disregarded entirely as Neoliberals trumpet for all guns to be totally banned. After all, they say, thousands die from gun-related accidents and crimes every year. They fail to see that criminals will always get guns, a parallel to their own argument stating that, if abortion becomes illegal, women will still get abortions.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: I guess it was a mistake for the Dumb Cunt (TM) and her right-wing bum-buddies to join the left-wing sodomy artists in electing so goddamn many Communist gun-snatchers to political office. I think we ought to give Hinkley his gun back, as soon as another Republican is elected President.

RULES FOR REVOLUTION #9 AND #10: UNDERMINE THE ARMED FORCES

THE RULES: Destroy the reputation of the armed forces. Cause the young men to perceive military duty as distasteful and ridiculous. Fight registration of any kind, and encourage defections within the ranks. Cause the people to desire peace at any cost. Cause them to oppose any and all of their government's actions regarding the strengthening or use of their armed forces.

THE DUMB CUNT'S OPINION: Our country's armed forces consume a vast percentage of our gross national product. We possess the best and most advanced weapons systems in the world. But our armed forces are a joke for two reasons: (1) they are completely restrained in their actions by a hostile Congress, and (2) the armed forces have been saddled with such a bad reputation that it is virtually impossible to fill the ranks with volunteers, even in the new and streamlined armed services.

Where serving in the armed forces was once considered patriotic and honorable (as it was in the former Soviet Union), it is now looked upon as foolish and 'anti-progressive.'

Servicemen are ridiculed and denigrated at every turn. People say that, if you can't make it on the outside, you wind up in the armed forces.

Every serviceman is considered to be a useless gobbler of tax money.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: And all of the good soldiers, like Tim McVeigh, end up leaving.

FINAL REALITY: WELCOME TO AMERIKA, COMRADES. ================================================================ The 'Rules for Revolution' described here are the most important actions that can be taken to weaken a country in order to prepare it for armed attack or a skillful coup d'etat. These rules are summaries that are extracted from a number of books written by professional revolutionaries from the former Soviet Union, from other Communist-dominated countries, and from the United States itself. They are most concisely summarized in the 2,225 page, three-volume set Lenin: Selected Works , distributed in English by Progress Publishers, 21, Zubovsky Boulevard, Moscow. These general principles, dedicated to one of the most famous revolutionaries of all time, Vladimir Lenin, are studied by every Communist political scientist, and by every ambassador or emissary of any type who leaves the former Soviet Union. They are also studied in great detail by many Americans.

THE TRUTHMONGERING VERNACULAR TRANSLATION AND CRITIQUE: Vladimir Lenin's best friend in the whole, wide world, is the Dumb Cunt (TM) and her Nazi Christian bum-buddies. The Godless Communists and the Nazi Christians could trade their brochures and just interchange the words "Commie" and "Christian." I wish I had a penny for every Dumb Cunt (TM) and Stupid Prick (TM) who spent the majority of their time promoting the very same beliefs as those they claim to oppose, the only difference being that their 'solution' is the MLM promoting of a 'god' with a different name, or a 'flag' with a different 'hang time.'

-- Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 1304 SW 160th Avenue, Suite 122 Weston, Florida 33326 Phone: (954) 349-0366 Fax: (954) 349-0361

Why does it not come as a surprise that this Dumb Cunt Nazi Christian Bitch (TM) is hiding behind 'the children,' hoping that it will prevent her from being a target of reprisal for the bullshit she is flinging at others? Why doesn't someone shoot this Dumb Cunt Nazi Christian Bitch? If it saves the life of just one child... TruthMonger

TruthMonger wrote: <snipped, because it's basically a lot of crap> Monger: Feel better? I certainly hope so. By the way...for whatever it's worth: #1...I'm Jewish, not a Nazi-loving Christian bitch. #2...You have no idea who or what I am. #3...You hate that I'm right. I love that. "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - Darth Vader -- Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 1304 SW 160th Avenue, Suite 122 Weston, Florida 33326 Phone: (954) 349-0366 Fax: (954) 349-0361

Jodi Hoffman <jlhoffm@ibm.net> wrote:

By the way...for whatever it's worth: #1...I'm Jewish, not a Nazi-loving Christian bitch.

This makes you a Nazi-loving Jewish bitch. I concur in Monger's assessment of you as a Dumb Cunt. To expand on this, nearly every position you take is fascist -- to pick one at random, you accuse the American people of physical flabbiness. Now, who -- in the nineteen-thirties -- abhorred such flabbiness in the German people & made a show of public exercise rituals: 1. Jewish Intellectuals. 2. Nazis. Not a coincidence, either. Sedentary activities include reading, discussion, writing, &c. -- all abhorred by fascists. Yet you claim to oppose fascism. Dumb cunt. & this is the most trivial example.

#2...You have no idea who or what I am.

To a degree, true. But apply the principle to others: you know as little, or less, about me than I know about you. Stop trying to dictate my life.

#3...You hate that I'm right. I love that.

You're right? Sorry, I must have missed that. Was your post cyphertext?

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - Darth Vader

Yes, Darth Vader was a card-carrying member of the ACLU. Paul The final elegance, not to console Nor sanctify, but plainly to propound.

At 1:25 PM -0500 11/3/1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:

As I wander back through all the posts on this list, it finally dawns on me what this is all about, this 'fight censorship' rhetoric. It's nothing more and nothing less than a lot of egotistical, self-serving brats who absolutely refuse to grow up, including you, Declan. Don't you realize that YOU are a major reason for the downward spiral of society? Instead of trying to protect children, you want to empower them. Even a moron knows that when you do so, that power has to be taken from someone. Unfortunately, that someone is the parent. I have to ask myself just how many on this list have children. Not many, I would say.

Daughter and two grandchildren.

Someone on this list, I forget who, has made numerous attempts at convincing us that pornography 'does no harm' to children. It is exactly at this point that I must draw a line. Studies have shown that an event which lasts even so much as three-tenths of a second, within five to ten minutes has produced a structural change in the brain. Exposure to porn causes actual brain damage, especially in a child.

Which studies? By whom? Have they been independently verified and are they accepted within the appropriate medical practice? In any case, the First Amendment stumbling block you mention is all that stands between enlightenment and darkness. Personally, I think the SC is way out of line determining who's moral values are selected in order to define any aspect of pornography. The 'Crowded Theater Test' should be used for all First Amendment decisions: does excercise of this speech (e.g., yelling, "Fire") directly endanger a particular individual or explicitly identified individuals, not some faceless group like our youth. Sexually explicit material should no more be restricted than other non-sexual expressions (e.g., media violence or information on the manufacture and use of explosives.) Since both are protected and widely available, so should porn of all types, no limits. --Steve

I want to make a short comment- First of all, most of the Christians I know --in fact all- dont use this kind of profanity that Jodi is using. So I would not label her a "religous righter" All this labeling of RRs and fundamentalists has to stop. I believe in a fairly literal interpretation of the bible(Lets not get into that) but-- I dont fit in your jar of fundamentalism and Jodi doesnt fit in mine-- Stereotypes of RRs are inaccurate as a whole. You guys are preaching Free speech and acceptance and equality- yet you are guilty of the very sins of hate which you condemn others of. :-) BTW- I found the mockery of Jesus offensive. I am looking forward to some more posts on cyber stuff. Before we got off on this tangent I was learning faster from this list about the net and its possibilities than I could ever teach myself. Thanks!

hayden@phoenix.net wrote:

I found the mockery of Jesus offensive.

Me too! ~J H.Fucking. C~ "So they were offended at Him. But Jesus said to them, <red> 'A prophet is not without honour except in his own country and on his own mailing list.' <red> "