~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, The following is from USA Today of last Friday: In a comprehensive study that may reshape the gun control debate, researchers have found that letting people carry concealed guns appears to sharply reduce killings, rapes and other violent crimes. The nationwide study [from the University of Chicago] found that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed handguns: * Homicide, down 8.5%. * Rape, down 5%. * Aggravated assault, down 7%. ... The drop isn't primarily caused by people defending themselves with guns, says John Lott, the study's author. Rather, criminals seem to alter their behavior to avoid coming into contact with a person who might have a gun. The official release of the study is scheduled for tomorrow. The study took two years and was peer reviewed. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C'punks,
The following is from USA Today of last Friday:
In a comprehensive study that may reshape the gun control debate, researchers have found that letting people carry concealed guns appears to sharply reduce killings, rapes and other violent crimes.
The nationwide study [from the University of Chicago] found that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed handguns: * Homicide, down 8.5%. * Rape, down 5%. * Aggravated assault, down 7%. ... The drop isn't primarily caused by people defending themselves with guns, says John Lott, the study's author. Rather, criminals seem to alter their behavior to avoid coming into contact with a person who might have a gun.
The official release of the study is scheduled for tomorrow. The study took two years and was peer reviewed.
S a n d y
Correlation != causation. What are the figures on other crimes? I presume they would have to have gone up, since the criminal element has been deprived of it's "revenue" in this manner. Perhaps they simply didn't have time for killing, raping and assulting; being too busy lugging around their legally concealed handguns and pointing them at shop-keepers. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis, _God in the Dock_ +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+ |Julian Assange RSO | PO Box 2031 BARKER | Secret Analytic Guy Union | |proff@suburbia.net | VIC 3122 AUSTRALIA | finger for PGP key hash ID = | |proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu | FAX +61-3-98199066 | 0619737CCC143F6DEA73E27378933690 | +---------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Julian Assange wrote:
Correlation != causation. What are the figures on other crimes?
I'm waiting for the official study itself, but the article did say that the study showed a shift from violent crimes to property offenses. If so, that's a trade I'll make any day. I'll see if I can get a copy of the study when it is released. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
C'punks,
On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Julian Assange wrote:
Correlation != causation. What are the figures on other crimes?
I'm waiting for the official study itself, but the article did say that the study showed a shift from violent crimes to property offenses. If so, that's a trade I'll make any day.
I'll see if I can get a copy of the study when it is released.
S a n d y
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In 1981, the city of Kennesaw, GA suffered 17 violent crimes and 55 burglaries. In 1982, Kennesaw passed an ordinance requiring all city residents to own a firearm, and there was only 1 violent crime and 19 burglaries. In 1983, Kennesaw experienced 3 violent crimes and 9 burglaries. I think that the cause-effect relationship is obvious. Jonathan Wienke "A conservative is a liberal who got mugged last night." --Lee Rodgers Key fingerprint = 30 F9 85 7F D2 75 4B C6 BC 79 87 3D 99 21 50 CB
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 JonWienk@ix.netcom.com wrote:
In 1981, the city of Kennesaw, GA suffered 17 violent crimes and 55 burglaries. In 1982, Kennesaw passed an ordinance requiring all city residents to own a
Said ordinance being passed, as a protest against Elk Grove, IL passing an orinance, banning handguns. Anybody know when Elk Grove revoked their ordinance? Crime went down for six months there [ Elk Grove ] after the ban was passed, then it went up --- far surpassing previous crime levels, for all types of crime. xan jonathon grafolog@netcom.com Illiterate: adj. Inability to read write or speak five or fewer languages. Funksioneel Ongeleerd: a. Die wat kon nee elf or meer tale lees, skryf and gesprek.
On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, jonathon <grafolog@netcom.com> wrote:
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 JonWienk@ix.netcom.com wrote:
In 1981, the city of Kennesaw, GA suffered 17 violent crimes and 55 burglaries. In 1982, Kennesaw passed an ordinance requiring all city residents to own a
Said ordinance being passed, as a protest against Elk Grove, IL passing an orinance, banning handguns. Anybody know when Elk Grove revoked their ordinance? Crime went down for six months there [ Elk Grove ] after the ban was passed, then it went up --- far surpassing previous crime levels, for all types of crime.
First of all, you are talking about Morton Grove, not Elk Grove. Second of all, the ban was mostly ignored--the first year it was in effect, only 17 guns were turned in. The Morton Grove gun ban was not a statistically significant event. Jonathan Wienke "Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenarios, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government." --Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberg organization meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. Transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates. "A conservative is a liberal who got mugged last night." --Lee Rodgers Key fingerprint = 30 F9 85 7F D2 75 4B C6 BC 79 87 3D 99 21 50 CB
participants (4)
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jonathon -
JonWienk＠ix.netcom.com -
Julian Assange -
Sandy Sandfort