When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned. Bush was a veteran, and Clinton was not. I take it the ones who are writing on this subject about how we should have the "freedom" to burn the flag have never served in the military or for our country. Being a veteran myself, I find it very distateful to allow anyone on our soil to be allowed to "BURN" our symbol of freedom. Think about the flag for a moment and what it really stands for. Does it not stand for freedom and liberty? Sorry, I just had to let this out. I stand behind Bush on this one. Don't burn the flag unless you would like to live under another flag!
At 10:20 PM -0700 6/12/97, RS wrote:
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
When I was in Boy Scouts, they taught us that the only proper way to dispose of a flag which was worn beyond use was to burn it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The Internet was designed | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | to protect the free world | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | from hostile governments. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
This is an ill thought out and emotional response. A flag, just as any other object, it someones private property. If I choose to but 1000000 US flags and burn them on my property, or on property I have permission to use for this purpose, it is no business of the state or anyone else. Realise first and foremost that all law is based on property. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
At 10:20 PM -0700 6/12/97, RS wrote:
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
Bush was a veteran, and Clinton was not. I take it the ones who are writing on this subject about how we should have the "freedom" to burn the flag have never served in the military or for our country.
Being a veteran myself, I find it very distateful to allow anyone on our soil to be allowed to "BURN" our symbol of freedom. Think about the flag for a moment and what it really stands for. Does it not stand for freedom and liberty?
Sorry, I just had to let this out. I stand behind Bush on this one. Don't burn the flag unless you would like to live under another flag!
You ought to get off this list, then, because you'll surely find our anarchist, anti-government, tax-evading ideas alien to you. "Against the law" is not just a nicety of phrasing: it means someone who "insults a symbol" goes to jail. Hardly consistent with a free society is it? As for Bush being a veteran and Clinton not being a veteran, what the hell does this have to do with their political positions? Did you vote for George McGovern in 1972 because he was a veteran (a bomber pilot, in fact) while Richard Nixon was a guy who finagled his way out of joining the military? Jeeze, the bozos who wash up on our list. Where's Bell when we really need him? --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199706130521.BAA13934@ren.globecomm.net>, on 06/13/97 at 01:20 AM, "RS" <panther@writeme.com> said:
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
Bush was a veteran, and Clinton was not. I take it the ones who are writing on this subject about how we should have the "freedom" to burn the flag have never served in the military or for our country.
Being a veteran myself, I find it very distateful to allow anyone on our soil to be allowed to "BURN" our symbol of freedom. Think about the flag for a moment and what it really stands for. Does it not stand for freedom and liberty?
Sorry, I just had to let this out. I stand behind Bush on this one. Don't burn the flag unless you would like to live under another flag!
The flag is a symbol (aka a form of speech). If you dissagre with that speech the you have every right to counter it with more speech (aka burn the flag). The consequences of dissalowing this or any form of political protest outways any statisfaction blindly wrapping ones self in the flag may provide. - -- Veteran of more than one shit-hole we had no business being in. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM6Df9o9Co1n+aLhhAQEBHQP7B3CAQQ9/8iIiYaXhj9mmXiRyrEt0HLnZ BnET2/VPnjbWxZzAoDJAittm9Nn5lrStQil1jl/vLMoqR+o2+XEuiwY6hm3Ojm4V 8pZLTrLPczMUKTyDvAJ3H8CcpEFeVnTVWCuGsXWvAOQEEFjZh4JlDRkxGmVxV+P1 EMSHX1iAXW0= =m0RZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 1:56 am -0400 on 6/13/97, Tim May wrote:
Did you vote for George McGovern in 1972 because he was a veteran (a bomber pilot, in fact) while Richard Nixon was a guy who finagled his way out of joining the military?
Uh, Nixon spent WWII in the navy(?) in the Pacific. About the only finagling he did was win enough in poker to fund his congressional campaign on returning home. I am not a crook, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
On 13 Jun 97 at 1:20, RS wrote:
To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
This may seem counter-intuitive, but allowing someone to publicly burn a flag is _demonstration_, not destruction, of the freedom we celebrate. In fact, supporting other's right to utter speech that we find distasteful is the purest form of "freedom and liberty." Tag
On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, RS wrote:
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
You're missing the point. Burning the flag, the symbol of this nation, is a protest that the government is doing something that you find absolutely reprehensible. (Or at least should be) To prevent this burning of the flag goes so strongly against what the First ammendment sought to do as to completely ignore it. Sure, some people will burn the flag because they like to burn things, or because they like to cause trouble, but isn't this hard to tell apart from non-violent protest, one of the fundamental things in this country? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ryan Anderson - <Pug Majere> "Who knows, even the horse might sing" Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.." randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
panther@writeme.com said:
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
Some people believe that the freedom that the flag once symbolized is already gone. Burning the flag can be a representative way of saying "Our Freedom has already been burned". Of course, banning the burning of the flag only proves their point. rgds-- TA (tallard@frb.gov) I don't speak for the Federal Reserve Board, it doesn't speak for me.
On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, RS wrote:
When it comes down to flag burning, It really bothers me that we allow our symbol of freedom to be burned. It's more than a flag and a right. It's a symbol of the freedom we have. To allow someone to publicly burn a flag is essentially displaying our freedom being burned.
Bush was a veteran, and Clinton was not. I take it the ones who are writing on this subject about how we should have the "freedom" to burn the flag have never served in the military or for our country.
Being a veteran myself, I find it very distateful to allow anyone on our soil to be allowed to "BURN" our symbol of freedom. Think about the flag for a moment and what it really stands for. Does it not stand for freedom and liberty?
Sorry, I just had to let this out. I stand behind Bush on this one. Don't burn the flag unless you would like to live under another flag!
Being a veteran, you should be aware of the freedoms for which you risked your life. You are assuming that burning of our flag is intended to insult the tenets of freedom our country used to be based on. (unfortunately only for europeans) Maybe what the person is saying is that "our freedom is going up in flames". Considering the barbeque at Waco I would consider this the ultimate political statement. "Church burning. Its not just for racists anymore!" (sorry i digress) Political speech. Love it or shut the hell up. Just because you find it offensive doesn't mean you should change the constitution. Should we amend the constitution to prosecute people who pick their noses in public, say the f-word or insult your favorite religion? Man! Time to take a civics 101 class. Jim Burnes son and nephew of people who thought they were risking their lives for freedom
participants (10)
-
Bill Frantz -
Jim Burnes -
Paul Bradley -
Robert Hettinga -
RS -
Ryan Anderson -
Tim May -
Tim Tartaglia -
Tom Allard -
William H. Geiger III