Re: Identity, Persistence, Anonymity, and Accountability--Part I of II
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/14/97 6:54 PM, Tim May (tcmay@got.net) passed this wisdom:
But note that there absolutely is no requirement in the United States for ageneral form of identification. Non-drivers need not have any form of I.D. And as we have seen in court cases, a la Lawson v. Kolender (where a blackman in dreadlocks used to like to walk the streets of San Diego...the copsstopped him many times and jailed him for not having I.D. on him...the court ruled that people don't have to present credentials issued by the state to walk the public streets).
In New Jersey there is a criminal offense called "failure to properly identify" ... I don't know if its ever been tested, or if it is still on the books, but as of ten years ago it was there. I think it was a misdemeanor (in NJ the term is "petty disorderly persons offense) I cannot imagine it as a felony. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNJXIij7r4fUXwraZAQEMvAf9FzhcodfycwA3BSV4cB5nPAqyR+6+hguK 9VG1/b7CEvEyZleD1HzRbB7i8+ycwxvtZr959FPpume5LW3eWhSsVGLEb8A9EzW3 FQXqmxa6X6LLUcPIrhfSaO8JQdPV0LXOfXwW7ZZh7s02pUmTRgpXOuM5MdHSf0nG kKTGntI5JbaEmDgvyANXETV4EomZ/0Zm3zJiGw3M9G4aZpFl3LIgFPcOUSY1MwJI TMGbNCS/DveeAhmM2J+oa8DbUwqVYGGhA27YHNve5rtxqkDbobsF9OMY8ssU70D0 K0uHEq+ZoobSlNHHrFP+I52RxXiKtP4blGxn8riYmjBp8H4ih6Hsbw== =41Ml -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "to be yourself in a world that tries, night and day, to make you just like everybody else - is to fight the greatest battle there ever is to fight and keep on fighting" - e.e. cummings
At 8:13 PM -0800 12/15/1997, Greg Broiles wrote:
There's an important distinction between a requirement that you identify yourself accurately, and a requirement that you carry a particular form of identification. It is constitutional for the police to ask you what your name is, under certain circumstances - and you can face criminal charges if you lie.
If you refuse to identify yourself to LE, how long can you be held (assuming their data base check turns up nothing.) --Steve
But note that there absolutely is no requirement in the United States for ageneral form of identification. Non-drivers need not have any form of I.D. And as we have seen in court cases, a la Lawson v. Kolender (where a blackman in dreadlocks used to like to walk the streets of San Diego...the copsstopped him many times and jailed him for not having I.D. on him...the court ruled that people don't have to present credentials issued by the state to walk the public streets).
In New Jersey there is a criminal offense called "failure to properly identify" ... I don't know if its ever been tested, or if it is still on the books, but as of ten years ago it was there. I think it was a misdemeanor (in NJ the term is "petty disorderly persons offense) I cannot imagine it as a felony.
There's an important distinction between a requirement that you identify yourself accurately, and a requirement that you carry a particular form of identification. It is constitutional for the police to ask you what your name is, under certain circumstances - and you can face criminal charges if you lie. It is not, however, constitutional to require that you keep or carry identity cards or documents. (Modulo, of course, participation in activities like carrying a concealed weapon or driving. There are some people who believe that carrying special credentials should not be required when undertaking those activities, but very few or none of those people sit as judges, so their beliefs are comforting or pleasing but also insufficient to prevent conviction.) -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles@netbox.com | Export jobs, not crypto. http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | http://www.parrhesia.com
participants (3)
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Brian B. Riley
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Greg Broiles
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Steve Schear