Safeway + Your Privacy
Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't bother, we have that information." So if Joe bad guy gets ahold of your checkbook, writes a bunch of checks, let's say, over a weekend, Safeway doesn't care because the computer sez your account is Kosher. Hopefully, someone will have this awful thing happen to them and sue the Shit out of Safeway for being so negligent. Peter Mc Gowan, the asshole who owns Safeway, sized down his employees [so his shareholders could make more millions], which means we have to wait in even longer lines, due to his excellent insight into the Food Management. These databases are already collecting information every time we do not pay in cash. Those bar codes record everything. Safeway has taken this a bit higher, and I only wish I had someone steal my checkbook and take Safeway to the cleaners.
C'punks, On Fri, 15 Apr 1994 killbarny@aol.com wrote:
Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't bother, we have that information."
So if Joe bad guy gets ahold of your checkbook, writes a bunch of checks, let's say, over a weekend, Safeway doesn't care because the computer sez your account is Kosher.
Nonsense. Of course they care, because they will have to eat the bad check, not you.
Hopefully, someone will have this awful thing happen to them and sue the Shit out of Safeway for being so negligent. [ irrevelvant rant against Safeway's hiring practices ] . . . I only wish I had someone steal my checkbook and take Safeway to the cleaners.
And what, pray tell, would be your cause of action? Why don't you just pay cash if you are so bothered? S a n d y
C'punks,
On Fri, 15 Apr 1994 killbarny@aol.com wrote:
Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't bother, we have that information."
And Sandy Sandfort responded:
And what, pray tell, would be your cause of action? Why don't you just pay cash if you are so bothered?
The thing is- yes of course, one coulpd pay cash to avoid Safeway- and in fact, perhaps that is one must do. However, it seems to me that we a re touching on alarger issue here- and that is the fact that these practices amount to societal surveillance techniques which are being employed with greater and greater frequency. One has to get a bit nervous, it would seem- when it becomes easier and easier for the powers that be to track your every move- including the videos you have rented, the people you have spoken with or correspaonded with, the books and magazines you have read, etc. This may not be of concern to the average citizen who is content with going to work and going home and watching TV every night- but for those who don't buy into or are actively hostile towards the dominant hegemonic ideology of this country- surveillance may in fact become a real concern. Computers make such surviellance, as we have seen, more and more feasible on a grander scale- both in terms of the amount of information it is possible to obtian about a person, and in terms of the amount of people which can easily be watched. I am not suggesting a grand conspiricy, although I think that computer technology could potentially inadvertently give great power to a centralized government. I suppose that is why it is so important not to merely say "Hey- pay cash"- but rather to think about the further implications of surveillance via computer in our society. Ciao for now, Julie __________________________________________________________________________ Julie M. Albright Ph.D Student Department of Sociology University of Southern California albright@usc.edu
C'punks, On Sat, 16 Apr 1994, Julietta wrote:
. . .
And Sandy Sandfort responded:
And what, pray tell, would be your cause of action? Why don't you just pay cash if you are so bothered?
The thing is- yes of course, one coulpd pay cash to avoid Safeway- and in fact, perhaps that is one must do. However, it seems to me that we a re touching on alarger issue here- and that is the fact that these practices amount to societal surveillance techniques which are being employed with greater and greater frequency. . .
I am not suggesting a grand conspiricy, although I think that computer technology could potentially inadvertently give great power to a centralized government. I suppose that is why it is so important not to merely say "Hey- pay cash"- but rather to think about the further implications of surveillance via computer in our society. . .
Julie
First, my main point was that the original poster's solution (i.e., "sue the shit out of Safeway") was sophomoric. I don't see any basis for a cause of action. Second, other than pay cash or--as someone else suggested--shop elsewhere, what are your options? These solutions work. Since Julie seems to think they are not enough, what would she suggest? If one is concerned about centralizing power in the government, than that would seem to eliminate governmental solutions such as suing or sponsoring "privacy" laws, n'est-ce pas? S a n d y
As insidious as it seems, there are a couple of advantages to this commercial invasion of privacy. firstly it allows you to go through the checkout counter a bit faster. Secondly, it allows Safeway to compile statistical information about what products you're interested in, and can sell this information to advertisers, which would either bombard you with junk mail, or unexpected/unwanted phonecalls, but may also throw in some cupons to sweaten the deal. (Of course the advantages are not quite all the shoppers...) Now this is fairly harmless, however, should something like DT2 require Safeway to provide its database to the Feds, they will hold practically all the information they could dream of having about an individual/family. They can already get all the credit info, at the records of your bank account, your credit card purchases, phone calls, food purchases, your trash (sort of like dumpster diving, only more sinister), what more could they possibly need to know you without your consent? It really is time to get anon digital cash... :-I
KillBarny@aol.com wrote:
Hopefully, someone will have this awful thing happen to them and sue the Shit out of Safeway for being so negligent. Peter Mc Gowan, the asshole who owns Safeway, sized down his employees [so his shareholders could make more millions], which means we have to wait in even longer lines, due to his excellent insight into the Food Management.
Shop somewhere else if you don't like it. VONS pulled a similar scam a while back, but they gave you a "VonsChek" card. Every time you wanted to use a check they'd ask for this card. The card had a little magnetic strip that they'd scan. Anyway, this one guy I know went in there and the card wouldn't scan, so the cashier wouldn't take his check. She said, "Well, sir, you'll need to apply for a replacement card." He asked how to do that and she said, "Well, you need to fill out this form..." at which time he said "No I don't," threw the card at her and walked away, leaving the cashier there with a cart full of groceries. Then the manager noticed, and tried to come over and offer assistance, but he just walked out of the store. I think they cut back on that crap somewhat since then; but I don't really know, since I don't shop there anymore (this was when I lived in California...)
These databases are already collecting information every time we do not pay in cash. Those bar codes record everything. Safeway has taken this a bit higher, and I only wish I had someone steal my checkbook and take Safeway to the cleaners.
More likely they would take YOU to the cleaners first. I'm not sure if this would be the desired outcome, as Safeway might try to cover their asses by demanding more shit from you like driver's liscense, Social insecurity number...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- killbarny@aol.com writes :
Safeway food stores has this neat little glitch in their shopping database that is just ripe for abuse and litigation. When you pay by check, your information is recorded and stored in their computers, so the next time you go in there and try to get out your ID [for your check], they say "Don't bother, we have that information."
So if Joe bad guy gets ahold of your checkbook, writes a bunch of checks, let's say, over a weekend, Safeway doesn't care because the computer sez your account is Kosher.
Hmmm... In this scenario, wouldn't Safeway wind up eating the bad checks? I realize that it would be a royal pain in the ass for the victim (the checkbook owner) to sort out the mess, but it would seem to me that the victim could prove that he/she didn't sign the checks, leaving Safeway in the position of having exchanged groceries for worthless paper. This same problem exists with credit cards to some degree, due to the lax verification processes in place ay many businesses, and there is some law that limits your liability in the event of card theft. Buying groceries may not immediately appear to be cypherpunks-related, but this thread does bring up a point about 'identity theft' and verification; I'd be interested to hear from the legal gurus on the Safeway/stolen checkbook idea. - -- ........................................................................ Philippe D. Nave, Jr. | Strong Crypto: Don't leave $HOME without it! pdn@dwroll.dw.att.com | Denver, Colorado USA | PGP public key: by arrangement. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLa7BbQvlW1K2YdE1AQHT/gQA2MZxQw+STucJybjOzyXoegh0RGSsVFCf kNe4ANK7w40tJ6ne8/OpR27lLoB+K2UIvAEq6ivC+VqAvSMCXF8ycSd2fG0lwdQv R5AC56K4wN77v9HlOU111oZYSqAbT5J5st6OWube6kUbBicNqnW95E5tNySdvz0L np/FBAi8TA4= =MzA6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (6)
-
Julietta -
killbarny@aol.com -
Matthew J Ghio -
Philippe Nave -
rarachel@prism.poly.edu -
Sandy Sandfort