Re: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
On 9/3/97 8:30 PM, Lucky Green (shamrock@netcom.com) passed this wisdom:
[Freeh] There are a number of ways that that could be implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum is a feature implemented and designed by the manufacturers of the products and services here that will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful decryption of the communications in transit or the stored data. That could be done in a mandatory manner. It could be done in an involuntary manner. But the key is that we have the ability. -
... hmmmm, immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy. Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys - Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key" "In effect, to follow, not to force the public inclination; to give a direction, a form, a technical dress, and a specific sanction, to the general sense of the community, is the true end of legislature." -- Edmund Burke
At 08:54 PM 9/3/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
I don't know where the authority for mandatory seat belts and air bags is claimed to come from, either. Or helmet laws in various states. Someone else is welcome to spend time researching this. Personally, all such laws are infringements on personal freedom, in my view. I half expect a case will be made that key escrow is a "safety" feature. Freeh's invocation of air bags may have been a clever signal.
I noticed that strange air bag analogy myself. Clearly, Freeh and his puppet masters are trying to skew the discussion towards "public safety". Of course, requiring GAK is more like requiring a remote kill switch in the ignition of all new cars so cops can just type a license plate number into their terminal to halt a fleeing car. [BTW, such kill switches will be required before long. I trust we all know this]. Frankly, I don't care if they outlaw crypto. We'll just glue stego on top of it. And Joe Sixpack couldn't care less. Nor do I care if Joe Sixpack wants to be spanked by his wife or plungered by his government. It's his choice. --Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/
I noticed that strange air bag analogy myself. Clearly, Freeh and his puppet masters are trying to skew the discussion towards "public safety". Of course, requiring GAK is more like requiring a remote kill switch in
the
ignition of all new cars so cops can just type a license plate number into their terminal to halt a fleeing car. [BTW, such kill switches will be required before long. I trust we all know this].
Already implemented actually. All modern automobiles have a rather respectable amount of computing power that is vulnerable to directed radio frequency weapons, whose effect to microelectronics is similar to an electromatic pulse. =This= is what is driving the push to get older vehicles off the road, not environmentalist's arguments about 'global warming'.
Frankly, I don't care if they outlaw crypto. We'll just glue stego on top of it. And Joe Sixpack couldn't care less. Nor do I care if Joe Sixpack wants to be spanked by his wife or plungered by his government. It's his choice.
------------------------ Name: amp E-mail: amp@pobox.com Date: 09/04/97 Time: 08:43:59 Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp == -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1 lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/) == 'Drug Trafficking Offense' is the root passphrase to the Constitution. Have you seen http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum ------------------------
At 8:08 PM -0700 9/3/97, Brian B. Riley wrote:
On 9/3/97 8:30 PM, Lucky Green (shamrock@netcom.com) passed this wisdom:
[Freeh] There are a number of ways that that could be implemented, but what we believe we need as a minimum is a feature implemented and designed by the manufacturers of the products and services here that will allow law enforcement to have an immediate lawful decryption of the communications in transit or the stored data. That could be done in a mandatory manner. It could be done in an involuntary manner. But the key is that we have the ability. -
... hmmmm, immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.
I urge extreme caution on pushing this 4th/5th/etc. angle about "due process" and "search and seizure" and legal niceties. If Freeh's proposal is passed, I'm sure the _trappings_ of due process and warrants and whatnot, or at least a magistrate's signature, will be implemented. Judges will be found, maybe even special "Surveillance Courts," as with the FISUR process. Building a case against Freeh's proposal on this basis is weak. A much stronger basis for stopping the Freeh nonsense is to strongly assert the First Amendment. Dictating the form that speech must take--escrow--is unconstitutional. Even the weaker form of Freeh's suggestion, that key escrow capabilities be forced into all Internet products, even if the use is "voluntary," seems to lack constitutional support. Could the Federal Trade Commission force all products to have such features? The Consumer Safety Products Commission? I don't know where the authority for mandatory seat belts and air bags is claimed to come from, either. Or helmet laws in various states. Someone else is welcome to spend time researching this. Personally, all such laws are infringements on personal freedom, in my view. I half expect a case will be made that key escrow is a "safety" feature. Freeh's invocation of air bags may have been a clever signal. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
At 11:08 PM 9/3/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
... hmmmm, immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.
Finding a judge to sign an order to decrypt the email of a suspected child pornographer/drug dealer will take all of 30 minutes. I don't think a 30 minute delay will be of any consequence to the government's agenda. Not to mention that Freeh lied to Congress when he claimed that they would always use a court order. Even today, court orders are not always required for wiretaps. This will be no different for future "mandatory" or "involuntary" GAK. [BTW, does anybody here have any idea why Freeh might stated that he preferred "mandatory" GAK over "involutary" GAK? Just curious...] Back to monkeywrenching, --Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.2.32.19970903222635.007669e4@netcom10.netcom.com>, on 09/03/97 at 10:26 PM, Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> said:
At 11:08 PM 9/3/97 -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
... hmmmm, immediate *lawful* decryption ... which implies that they plan to end run the Bill of Rights with some law that permits them to walk in and snoop on the spot ... right now to look at my mail which needs no key, just a teakettle, they at least have to stop somewhere and find a tame judge, which removes at least some of the immediacy.
Finding a judge to sign an order to decrypt the email of a suspected child pornographer/drug dealer will take all of 30 minutes. I don't think a 30 minute delay will be of any consequence to the government's agenda. Not to mention that Freeh lied to Congress when he claimed that they would always use a court order. Even today, court orders are not always required for wiretaps. This will be no different for future "mandatory" or "involuntary" GAK.
[BTW, does anybody here have any idea why Freeh might stated that he preferred "mandatory" GAK over "involutary" GAK? Just curious...]
Well I am not really worried about the "court approved" wiretaps as these are only a small fraction of all surveillance currently being done by the Government on it's citizens. A much more worrisome issue is that of the FBI,CIA,NSA,et al having the ability of driftnet fishing of communication. Once Big Brother takes an interest in you its all over but the crying. Even if they can't get you on what they want they will get you on something else. With current system we are all felons under numerous laws (yes even you Kent) some are just less aware of the fact than others. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNA7Fao9Co1n+aLhhAQGRWAQAvBxhxHIhy45qVS4D4+VB6KA5+lV7bPzl uhBXYaKpmIfbjZsRgsRj3yGjlRkFwdXp9bzM5m1hFWKaagWtLANxZohb/TYY7K47 jsncXSuieqkfx6DId85vg7rkaUrAXToTCSl1NbM8zoNiaOAwWZ1+F8oW3H5pbVJO NR7VjzTviX0= =rtet -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (5)
-
amp＠pobox.com -
Brian B. Riley -
Lucky Green -
Tim May -
William H. Geiger III