Re: [SCARE]: "If you only knew what we know..."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 01.03 PM 5/24/96 -0800, jim bell wrote:
If the Libyans are so bad (and they probably are) then why shouldn't the public in other countries be entitled to pool their contributions and take their government down?
I believe I understand the basic concepts of AP - perhaps not the far-reaching implications, but the fundamentals. I've thought about it, and I am against this system. What will happen when you've killed off all of the politicians/gov't employees who haven't quit? Do you really think this will make things better? Anarchy simply won't work with people. Have you ever read Lord of the Flies? I'm sure some people haven't. I will explain my reasoning. In Lord of the Flies (a novel by William Golding) a group of British schoolboys are deposited on a desert island. They have been evacuated from England because of a nuclear war. There are no adults. A responsible few try to maintain the rules and order of society to which they all are accustomed, but they are symbolically "AP'ed" out of power when the anarchists of the group break away and form their own tribe. To make a long story short, they revert to animal sacrifice, and human sacrifice, before the story closes. Very unsettling, no? The defects of society can be traced back to the defects in the individual. A direct quote from the author, who is not infallible, or even a reputable authority on the flaws and merits of humanity, but still, who is to say that once our notably corrupt governments are gone, the corruption in ourselves won't surface? Who is to say that we are any better than the government? They had to come from somewhere - the public, obviously. Have any of you AP proponents considered that perhaps our oh-so-corrupt government officials are simply the best that our amoral, decaying populace has to offer? What would we gain by rubbing them out? The point I make is that in elected governments (and I realize, not all are so lucky) the elected people are, most likely, the best of what the public has to offer. Who can blame them for being corrupt? Doesn't all power corrupt? I believe so. Maybe the current form of government isn't perfect, or even great, but it is still much better than anything that could possibly result from anonymous terrorism, which is really what AP is, isn't it? Peace can only be achieved by understanding, not through force or fear.
(okay, this is a rhetorical question...)
Oops. Well. It's too late now... :-) David -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMaZ4tRguzHDTdpL5AQEW3gP+OvHHoPxJnFQUahCsjYcQaRJ2FV6eJA7F s0BQ0jSvJCsGjMCEzT+bsNpErSNVxIafuq5AkMJQFhQHkhxUrPl/eqtBhomh5YV1 6CD5VGL0y030zmdzDBhLpJjLjKIkMzAC1DIdLmWCXZRyHDCD00KRdyRup72XZAqQ Ka3Klr8JOBQ= =LXi/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 24 May 1996, David Rosoff wrote: <text on the general standard of humanity using Lord of the Flies as an illustration deleted> I think an insight your analysis may benefit by is that certain institutions/societal norms create incetives for "corrupt politicians". Hayek argues against the "benevolent dictator" concept because he says no gentle person would ever aspire to be a dictator. The system itself calls for people who are ruthless to take the reins. A similar argument can be made for the various functions of a modenr democracy (like the US). It is rarely that we hear of a considerate IRS auditor, or a principled politician. The structures themselves call for and promote those who (in that an individual is more successful if they) are corrupt, power-hungry, unprincipled and ruthless. As for Assasination Politics, I can understand such proposals in jest. I too say things to appear controversial. As a serious political structure, however, it is reprehensible. Murder cannot be condoned (as a pacifist, the argument that politicians create wars and must be killed for that reason does not hold much water for me) and the proponents of such systems would do well to look more closely at the systemic ills rather than individuals. The argument that AP is an institutional dis-incentive for "bad" representatives that offsets other incentives is problematic since I do not believe the methods are just. hostmaster@trill-home.com * Symbiant test coaching * Blue-Ribbon * Lynx 2.5 WHERE CAN THE MATTER BE Oh, dear, where can the matter be When it's converted to energy? There is a slight loss of parity. Johnny's so long at the fair. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Key Escrow = Conscription for the masses | 2048 bit via finger iQB1AwUBMacbxRwDKqi8Iu65AQEn3AMAwCh+WWQsUrL1cnfZElzNmqexngXs4rAo Pz4ztTXpGPLxLMAKO5qcGNmI7yT8DP1rVH21EumZG700jQ18pH/7NWQj1RnAK3ZQ pJInW4kZ3iEjFKhCto0TzVOYEwMkZrrK =Wlte -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (2)
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David Rosoff
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Subir Grewal