Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
At 12:07 ðì 17/11/1996 -0600, snow wrote:
Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives: [lots of worthless crap snipped out]
None of that analogy is applicable to the cyberpunks list. When a list gets as big as that, it it no longer to be considered a "mailing-list" but it is a _public_ forum. The whole problem here is the abuse of power by both the EFF and John Gilmore.
Boursy is a twit who has lost more accounts that Vulis.
In this case, I'd quote a poet who said "I am not sorry for the poets who were left without an audience, I am sorry for the audiences who were left without any poets". I would suggest that it is not at all a "safe" indication of personal or intellectual _worth_, (of Mr. Boursy or of anyone) "how many accounts he has lost". For two reasons: (1) As I read Mr. Boursy's postings, I see no indication that he is either deranged, or evil, or lacking sanity or maturity. If he had these qualities, they'd sooner or later show up inside the F-K list, to which I subscribe for several months (nearly a year?). (2) The situation inside the "less official" side of thje Internet, at the moment (aka mailing lists) is so notoriously repressive that perhaps a _minority_ of mailing lists do not indulge in so-called "forcible unsubscriptions". E.g. what about the "Orgonomy mailing list" kicked out an eloquent critic of its owner (Dr. Demeo) (can find all names and details if you like) just because he opposed Dr. Demeo's "experiments" in an Israeli desert which (allegedly, according to the critic) resulted in people's deaths. I mention this case, because I was present there, and because (just like the "Cypherpunks" list) it was directly or indirectly related to issues of Freedom ("Orgonomy" being the "Alternative Psychology" of a rather unconventional thinker called Wilhelm Reich who died in an American jail after the McCarthian State framed him).
Ignore him.
It is not ethical to send such strong negative _injunctions_ to masses of people and also to strangers (the 1900-strong members of the cyberphunks list for instance). Because, you may or may not have strong reasons for believing you are justified in such invalidation, but more than a 1000 people are now _told_ by (self-appointed) "experts" such as yourself what and whom to ignore or to believe. (Like sheep led to the slaughter)... This was my objection also inside the F-K list, for _some_ of the postings in the past, but none of these postings was connected with acts of censorship, or with "sweeping generalisations" without evidence. On several occasions that I searched and found who or what they were talking about, I discovered they were talking about people whose activities were indeed horrifying (forged cancellations etc) and who also fought back. But what you are doing now, extending the "1-person-blacklist" to your number-two-entry (Mr. Boursy) is exactly the thing that I hoped you might avoid. First they kicked out Dimitri Vulis. Then they slandered and kept out Steve Boursy. Then... When they came after me, there was nobody left to support me. (You can perhaps realize what this paraphrase is about)... :-( Sincerily, and with... Sanity of Mind :-) George Stathis
George A. Stathis wrote:
This was my objection also inside the F-K list, for _some_ of the postings in the past, but none of these postings was connected with acts of censorship, or with "sweeping generalisations" without evidence. On several occasions that I searched and found who or what they were talking about, I discovered they were talking about people whose activities were indeed horrifying (forged cancellations etc) and who also fought back.
Horrifying eh? Hmm I found this just a bit to priceless to resist. I guess it falls under the old 'but I'll defend your right...' way of looking at things... In any case, here you go, this is the latest contribution of software from Dimitri to the values of freedom of expression and non-censoring & all that blather. #From Phrack 49, file p49-09 published this month: .oO Phrack Magazine Oo. Volume Seven, Issue Forty-Nine File 09 of 16 by Dr.Dimitri Vulis (KOTM) A Content-Blind Cancelbot for Usenet (CBCB) And what follows, is Dr. Dimitri, defender of freedom of expression, champion of the anti-censors on the net, posting code to the world to engage in exactly those activities that everyone has been ranting about as being so utterly "horrifying (forged cancellations etc)" as it were. Amusing to say the least. Tim
George A. Stathis wrote:
At 12:07 ðì 17/11/1996 -0600, snow wrote:
Boursy is a twit who has lost more accounts that Vulis.
I've lost but one account--world.std.com (Software Tool & Die) soon to be purchased by the conglomorate Plug Pullers R US. That was entirely related to a local rent control matter. Now I may be a 'twit'--that is an entirely different matter.
I would suggest that it is not at all a "safe" indication of personal or intellectual _worth_, (of Mr. Boursy or of anyone) "how many accounts he has lost".
I would say though that if one makes false statements as has this 'snow' character it indicates a lack of credibiltiy.
Ignore him.
Something you seem unable to do. Isn't it odd how some will tell you how insignificant and irrelevant you are only to devote so much of their time and energy to you. I find that very odd.
It is not ethical to send such strong negative _injunctions_ to masses of people and also to strangers (the 1900-strong members of the cyberphunks list for instance).
Well thanks George but I do think his statement speak for themselves. I'm not in the least concerned someone like him could harm me--in fact I find it very amusing that he is deemed 'acceptable for that list while Dr. Vulis is not.
Because, you may or may not have strong reasons for believing you are justified in such invalidation, but more than a 1000 people are now _told_ by (self-appointed) "experts" such as yourself what and whom to ignore or to believe. (Like sheep led to the slaughter)...
Well that's sort of like Tiny Tim Skirvin and his Global Killfile-- it does him more harm than those he is after--in fact little Tim reads my every word.
But what you are doing now, extending the "1-person-blacklist" to your number-two-entry (Mr. Boursy) is exactly the thing that I hoped you might avoid.
And based on lies as well--I've only had one account terminated--that by Barry Shein who lives in Brookline, Ma. and that was entirely do to real estate industry money and the rent control issue (a statewide referrendum on rent control which existed only in Brookline, Cambridge, and Boston)--many millions of dollars at stake there. Shein is simply a whore.
First they kicked out Dimitri Vulis.
Then they slandered and kept out Steve Boursy.
Well my suggestion--given the size of the list and that we have numerous sympathizers there--is to have all of their posts forwarded and publically post them for free and open discussion. Steve
Then...
When they came after me, there was nobody left to support me.
(You can perhaps realize what this paraphrase is about)... :-(
Sincerily, and with... Sanity of Mind :-) George Stathis
participants (3)
-
George A. Stathis -
Stephen Boursy -
Tim Scanlon