Re: Stinger Specs
Stinger (AIM-92) (Jane's #: 6604.331) 152 x 7-14 cm (l x d - span) Weight: 18 kg Warhead: HE Propulsion: Solid Range: 2-4 km Guidance: IR
Exact effective range / altitude is not listed in the quick guide I have on my desk. I will pull it out of a larger volume when I have time.
When I was doing my undergraduate work several of us built a heat-seeking and homing circuit which we subsequently tested in a small (24-inch) solid propellent rocket. Four CO-2 cooled germanium sensors picked up radiation from a small flat-topped piramidal mirror which drove fin servos to 'null' onto (place its image atop the piramid) the heat source. One evening we were able to 'shoot down' a lit cigarette tied to fence up in the hills near the college from a distance of about 1/4-mile. For some time we considered making available 'Visible Missile" plans/kits, for a few hundred dollars, which had everything except the easily obtained zinc-sulphur propellent (would this be illegal given the laws passed since the '70s?) so those interested in IR missile technology could learn from a functioning testbed. I did quite a bit of serious amateur rocketry in my teen years through the Northrup Rocketry Club (So. Cal) and launches at a site near Edwards AFB (they were happy to track our launches and make sure there was no aircraft hazzard). Our 24-inch rockets reached speeds of over 1000 mph in about 1 second and altitudes of about 10,000 ft. 48-inch rockets (still small enough for shoulder launch) could reach over Mach 2 and altitude/ranges of about 50,000 ft (all figures insignificant payloads). I'm certain I and many of my friends got much of our interest for math and science and subsequent academic success from such hands-on activities which were encouraged or supported by teachers, parents, corporations and the government. We were forced to solve real chemistry, math, engineering, physics and material science problems. This has all vanished is our zeal to protect youth and society from any activity which might lead injury or misuse. I can't even find a place to buy a niece a real chemistry set as tort laws have forced them from the market. When considering the plumeting interest and achievement of our youth in math and science we look nor further for a reason. -- Steve
Steve brings us some important issues. Even a few crypto-related issues, later. At 7:08 PM -0800 12/5/96, Steve Schear wrote:
When I was doing my undergraduate work several of us built a heat-seeking and homing circuit which we subsequently tested in a small (24-inch) solid .... functioning testbed. I did quite a bit of serious amateur rocketry in my teen years through the Northrup Rocketry Club (So. Cal) and launches at a site near Edwards AFB (they were happy to track our launches and make sure .... I'm certain I and many of my friends got much of our interest for math and science and subsequent academic success from such hands-on activities which were encouraged or supported by teachers, parents, corporations and the government. We were forced to solve real chemistry, math, engineering, physics and material science problems. This has all vanished is our zeal to protect youth and society from any activity which might lead injury or misuse. I can't even find a place to buy a niece a real chemistry set as tort laws have forced them from the market. When considering the plumeting interest and achievement of our youth in math and science we look nor further for a reason.
I never was seriously into rockets, but I sure was heavily into Gilbert chemistry sets, making low-grade explosives, etc., and, as I shifted into physics (around the 8th grade), into Tesla coils, radio emissions, plasmas, tunnel diodes, etc. (Tunnel diodes may seem low-tech to you Gen-X folks, given that Esaki's invention never really changed the world as transistors did, but it was amazing to me as a 10th grader to be experimenting with "quantum tunneling." Your mileage may vary.) I'm not sure if Gilbert chemistry sets went off the market for liablity reasons, or for "lack of interest." The "4-banger" I had in 1961, supplemented with varius Bunsen burners, arc furnaces, Erlenmayer flasks, and whatnot, was amazing for its time. (And not terribly expensive, in case some of the "social democrats" on this list are thinking I lived a (I used to lie in bed at night, after my eyes adjusted to total darkness, watching through the lens on my Gilbert "spinthariscope," watching the flashes and trails of alpha particles striking the scintillator screen. Little did I know then that these same alpha particles would make my career 15 years later.) I believe there have been roughly (very roughly) three genarations of "science kids": * Generation 1: The kids of the 1920s-40s. The Ernest Lawrences and the Robert Noyces, who grew up on farms, repairing tractors and farm machinery. They learned about machinery at a direct level. These were the giants of the post-war science community, and the founders of modern American chip companies. * Generation 2: The Sputnik generation, of the 1950s-60s. They grew up with Gilbert chemistry sets, Erector sets, "All About" books, and with constant exposure to nuclear physics, relativily, molecular biology, etc. These were the workers who staffed the companies formed by the Noyces and Moores of the world, and the young scientists who pioneered the use of computers. * Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like. (I could imagine expanding this to 4 or 5 "generations," but I think you get the point. Being 44 years old, and almost 45, I claim no knowledge about what the "latest generation" is all about. Maybe it's the "Beavis and Butthead" generation...I don't know.) --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Timothy C. May wrote:
Steve brings us some important issues. Even a few crypto-related issues, later. At 7:08 PM -0800 12/5/96, Steve Schear wrote:
When I was doing my undergraduate work several of us built a heat-seeking and homing circuit which we subsequently tested in a small (24-inch) solid
[snip]
I believe there have been roughly (very roughly) three genarations of "science kids":
[snip]
* Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like.
I would guess that those who became and remained successful technically (as opposed to becoming "business people") were using HP computers and such in the 1970s. I for one was a heavy user then, and PETs, Apples, Radio Shack, etc. computers weren't reliable enough for serious work.
At 1:12 AM -0800 12/6/96, Dale Thorn wrote:
Timothy C. May wrote:
* Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like.
I would guess that those who became and remained successful technically (as opposed to becoming "business people") were using HP computers and such in the 1970s. I for one was a heavy user then, and PETs, Apples, Radio Shack, etc. computers weren't reliable enough for serious work.
My points were about the _children_ and what they were using when they grew up. (In fact, note my use of the phrase "who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs...") Indeed, in the 1970s I was using H-P 9825s and DEC PDP 11/34s, but the teenagers of that decade were, if they were fortunate and energetic, using PETs, Apple IIs, and the like. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:
At 1:12 AM -0800 12/6/96, Dale Thorn wrote:
Timothy C. May wrote:
* Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like.
I would guess that those who became and remained successful technically (as opposed to becoming "business people") were using HP computers and such in the 1970s. I for one was a heavy user then, and PETs, Apples, Radio Shack, etc. computers weren't reliable enough for serious work.
My points were about the _children_ and what they were using when they grew up.
(In fact, note my use of the phrase "who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs...")
Indeed, in the 1970s I was using H-P 9825s and DEC PDP 11/34s, but the teenagers of that decade were, if they were fortunate and energetic, using PETs, Apple IIs, and the like.
--Tim May
DEC PDP 11's - spaghetti code extrordinaire! :-) I reall don't miss those old beasts, but they did provide the means to learn quite a bit about how a computer (of the day) really functions. It's too bad that kids today haven't been subjected to the experience - we might start seeing a better appreciation for coding, as well as some innovation outside of the "objectivfying" development that is bloating many a Wintel hard drive. ...Paul
Indeed, in the 1970s I was using H-P 9825s and DEC PDP 11/34s, but the teenagers of that decade were, if they were fortunate and energetic, using PETs, Apple IIs, and the like.
Right On! PDP 11's rule!!! My favorite one was an 11/34 with "Hardware Floating Point" that had a GT-43 vector display processor as a coprocessor. You'd build a double buffered display list of vector instructions for the coprocessor, using your handy dandy fortran program, and then let it rip. As long as you weren't trying to do hidden line removal, or draw more than about 200 vectors, you could get smooth, real-time wire frame animation. We had it hooked up to a couple of knob boxes and some nice three axis joy sticks connected to 10 bit A/D's. Eric
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199612071749.JAA08668@comsec.com>, on 12/07/96 at 09:49 AM, Eric Blossom <eb@comsec.com> said: ::> Indeed, in the 1970s I was using H-P 9825s and DEC PDP 11/34s, but ::> the teenagers of that decade were, if they were fortunate and ::> energetic, using PETs, Apple IIs, and the like. ::Right On! PDP 11's rule!!! ::My favorite one was an 11/34 with "Hardware Floating Point" that had a ::GT-43 vector display processor as a coprocessor. :: that's what I thought until my 11/44 rolled in! ::You'd build a double ::buffered display list of vector instructions for the coprocessor, ::using your handy dandy fortran program, and then let it rip. As long ::as you weren't trying to do hidden line removal, or draw more than ::about 200 vectors, you could get smooth, real-time wire frame ::animation. We had it hooked up to a couple of knob boxes and some ::nice three axis joy sticks connected to 10 bit A/D's. :: you're showing your age, too! remember the old, old Logo before the IBM PC --ran on an 11/34? and the sandbox for the turtle. I still had an 11/34 when my youngest son was 2-3; and he would spend hours driving the turtle with its headlight in the sand, trailing its umbilical cord until he would hopelessly entangle it --and the old DEC Gigi keyboard which was only produced for educational sales --I managed to acquire a salesman's demo. I still have the Gigi, the special color monitor, and the source code tape from U of Toronto via DEC --compiled it on V6 UNIX if I remember, then Berkeley 3.9 for the 11/44 I had just acquired which was obsoleted by a pair of Vaxen in about a year. am I showing my age, yet? BTW, I think I can still read 9 track tapes. The old Pertec 800/1600 is still racked with a minivax with Ultrix V7. anyone still wish to play with that old dinosaur? - -- Cyberspace is OUR Freedom. FUCK your CDA! and, FUCK your WIPO, too. -attila -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMqo3wr04kQrCC2kFAQF7nwP+LM3FpVutojYbQCFPrRpOJZqtLC7r5+pw 68yo0gV0xmaMwVvkNSE48x4Y9ApkuLurE6wjDP1OyqY2IpF4vqORejpass223qtU Iz7mlds+uMP11nnct34OF+Q4vkE+ey5xHhd6Xz1ejRQ0wUaA23NWEabQPMr2iLEd 1aL5uPkp0c0= =F0ZH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
nuqneH,
I still have the Gigi, the special color monitor, and the source code tape from U of Toronto via DEC --compiled it on V6 UNIX if I remember, then Berkeley 3.9 for the 11/44 I had just acquired which was obsoleted by a pair of Vaxen in about a year.
Oh really? I thought BSD 2.x was the last for pdp-11. Can i get a copy of 3.9 from you?
800/1600 is still racked with a minivax with Ultrix V7. anyone still wish to play with that old dinosaur?
Great thing! -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ {::} {::} {::} CU in Hell _| o |_ | | _|| | / _||_| |_ |_ |_ (##) (##) (##) /Arkan#iD |_ o _||_| _||_| / _| | o |_||_||_| [||] [||] [||] Do i believe in Bible? Hell,man,i've seen one!
Timothy C. May wrote:
At 1:12 AM -0800 12/6/96, Dale Thorn wrote:
Timothy C. May wrote:
* Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like.
[snip my text]
My points were about the _children_ and what they were using when they grew up. (In fact, note my use of the phrase "who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs...") Indeed, in the 1970s I was using H-P 9825s and DEC PDP 11/34s, but the teenagers of that decade were, if they were fortunate and energetic, using PETs, Apple IIs, and the like.
I hope you find this interesting (or amusing): When I worked at Olympic Sales in El Segundo (2/81 thru 3/83), Saturday was the big shopping day for electronics goodies, and the Hughes, Northrop etc. guys would pile in with their kids and have a good time pestering the OS salespeople. I made a lot of observations and notes, and one of the truly fascinating was how, when parents would bring the kids in, the kids would be faced with Commodores, Ataris, TIs, Apples, and HPs, all on and running [but the non-HPs would almost always be running some video software (games usually) and the HPs would have a text screen up], and the kids would most often make a beeline for the HP-87s and HP-85s. Particularly the younger kids, say, 8 to 12 years old. The argument at the time (as I recall) was that the parents were right to steer the kids over to the Apples and Ataris, since they didn't cost an arm and a leg. It it had been my dad, though, he would have forgone the Apple until he could get the HP, which is a big part of the reason I'm able to do what I do today. More power to dads like mine (in spite of failings here and there)!
At 8:44 PM -0800 on 12/5/96, Timothy C. May wrote:
I'm not sure if Gilbert chemistry sets went off the market for liablity reasons, or for "lack of interest." The "4-banger" I had in 1961, supplemented with varius Bunsen burners, arc furnaces, Erlenmayer flasks, and whatnot, was amazing for its time. (And not terribly expensive, in case some of the "social democrats" on this list are thinking I lived a
I can provide a datapoint here. I started getting into chemistry when I was about 8, which was in 1981. I can't remember the brand name, but my first (and last, actually) 'value-added' kit was designed to keep kids from doing anything that could be dangerous, a fact tactfully explained on the packaging. To solve that problem, my mother gave me an Edmund Scientific catalog and a (severely limited, given my family background) budget for whatever I wanted. I ordered direct for supplies from then on.
* Generation 3: The computer generation. The 1970s-80s, who grew up with Commodore PETs and Apple IIs (and some later machines). These are the "new pioneers" of the 1980s-90s, the Marc Andreesens and the like.
I would have killed for a computer growing up. I finally got one, a Mac IIsi, when I went to college (I'm still paying off the loan I took out to buy it. I gave it to someone when I got another machine, and it will, if I'm not mistaken, retrieve this message the next time a certain someone checks mail. That helps me overlook the fact that I still owe more than the machine is worth... I learned my lesson.) There are many in my age bracket who play with non-computer science; the relevent fact being that whatever the field of study (I personally know folks doing research in bio, physics, chemistry and economics (arguably not a science ;)), they all use computers as a daily part of their work. You can run, but you can't hide.
(I could imagine expanding this to 4 or 5 "generations," but I think you get the point. Being 44 years old, and almost 45, I claim no knowledge about what the "latest generation" is all about. Maybe it's the "Beavis and Butthead" generation...I don't know.)
Yes, many of us are devoted to the study of Brute Force Insect Dissection. -j
--Tim May
-- "I'm about to, or I am going to, die. Either expression is used." - Last words of Dominique Bouhours, Grammarian, 1702 ____________________________________________________________________ Jamie Lawrence foodie@netcom.com
Steve Schear wrote:
Stinger (AIM-92) (Jane's #: 6604.331) 152 x 7-14 cm (l x d - span) Weight: 18 kg Warhead: HE Propulsion: Solid Range: 2-4 km Guidance: IR
Exact effective range / altitude is not listed in the quick guide I have on my desk. I will pull it out of a larger volume when I have time.
When I was doing my undergraduate work several of us built a heat-seeking and homing circuit which we subsequently tested in a small (24-inch) solid propellent rocket. Four CO-2 cooled germanium sensors picked up radiation from a small flat-topped piramidal mirror which drove fin servos to 'null' onto (place its image atop the piramid) the heat source. One evening we were able to 'shoot down' a lit cigarette tied to fence up in the hills near the college from a distance of about 1/4-mile.
For some time we considered making available 'Visible Missile" plans/kits, for a few hundred dollars, which had everything except the easily obtained zinc-sulphur propellent (would this be illegal given the laws passed since the '70s?) so those interested in IR missile technology could learn from a functioning testbed. I did quite a bit of serious amateur rocketry in my
very interesting. how to make this propellent? and why it was banned? thanks! death to zealous "child protectors".
teen years through the Northrup Rocketry Club (So. Cal) and launches at a site near Edwards AFB (they were happy to track our launches and make sure there was no aircraft hazzard). Our 24-inch rockets reached speeds of over 1000 mph in about 1 second and altitudes of about 10,000 ft. 48-inch
khm, it means that the acceleration was 45g. it is a lot, how come the rockets did not break apart? what were the rocket bodies made from?
rockets (still small enough for shoulder launch) could reach over Mach 2 and altitude/ranges of about 50,000 ft (all figures insignificant payloads).
I'm certain I and many of my friends got much of our interest for math and science and subsequent academic success from such hands-on activities which were encouraged or supported by teachers, parents, corporations and the government. We were forced to solve real chemistry, math, engineering, physics and material science problems. This has all vanished is our zeal to protect youth and society from any activity which might lead injury or misuse. I can't even find a place to buy a niece a real chemistry set as tort laws have forced them from the market. When considering the plumeting interest and achievement of our youth in math and science we look nor further for a reason.
of course, protection leads to stupidification. is this rocketry club still operational? - Igor.
participants (9)
-
ArkanoiD -
attila＠primenet.com -
azur＠netcom.com -
Dale Thorn -
Eric Blossom -
furballs -
ichudov＠algebra.com -
Jamie Lawrence -
Timothy C. May