At 10:19 AM 7/19/96 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

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[In California] anyone found in your house at night is presumptively a threat to which you may respond with deadly force. Shoot on sight, in other words.

To which Cerridwyn responded:

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I find it hard to believe "anyone". If "anyone" happens to be law enforcement, as has been proven again and again: yer screwed no matter what (either dead or in jail forever).

Hard to believe or not, that's the presumption. Now in law, it's a rebuttable presumption, but it's still a get-out-of-jail card if you did not know the shadow at the end of the call was a cop who was LAWFULLY in your house.

In this regard, I called into a local (NYC) National Commie Radio talk show (Brian Lehrer's) last year and was talking with the host about G. Gordon Liddy's remarks on shooting federal agents who unlawfully break into your hose. I said that self defense *could* (not necessarily *would*) work as a defense to a murder charge involving the killing of federal agents in this circumstance. He asked me if I could come up with any examples from real life where this had worked and I immediately shot back with "Yeah, Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris." That was the so-called Ruby Ridge case. They were acquitted of murder. Then there was the guy in New York who shot six NYC cops who surrounded the apartment where he was hiding (none died). He was acquitted of assault and attempted murder charges because he argued that he thought the cops had been sent to kill him by the drug dealers that it was his profession to rob. Love those NYC juries. And they say that there's no justice for a black man in Amerikkka. Don't try this at home though kids. Better to be elsewhere when they come looking for you. DCF