KKK derails crypto bill, report from House Judiciary...
The Net's crypto wet-dreams were demolished this afternoon by a Congressional committee's fear of coffee-drenched kids and the Ku Klux Klan. A two-hour debate over whether KKK volunteers could be sued for spilling coffee on an 8-year old at a bake sale blew through millions of dollars in billable lobbyist-hours and prevented the House Judiciary Committee from voting on Rep. Bob Goodlatte's (R-VA) SAFE crypto bill today. Somnolent yet somehow alert, Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich) wasted an hour sparring with the avuncular Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Illinois) over the "Volunteer Protection Act," which insulates people volunteering for nonprofit organizations from civil liability. But would that apply to the KKK, wondered Conyers? Is the KKK a registered 501(c)(3) organization under the IRS code? What about 501(c)(4) organizations? What if a KKK member decided to build houses for Habitat for Humanity? I kid you not: these are the questions that the august House Judiciary committee grapples with. The members ran out of time and never got around to voting on SAFE. It was a bizzare meeting, to be sure, but at least one point made sense: these decisions should be left to the states, not imposed on them by the Feds. Some Congressmen even cited the landmark Supreme Court decision in _Lopez_, which shortened the reach of the Federal government. Conyers: "Someone has to explain why this is a federal issue." Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY): "I don't see why it's necessary for the federal government to invade." Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass) coughed up an odd position: he likes the bill, but wants to make sure his GOP colleagues appreciate that this bill would screw the states. (It uses the Constitution's "interstate commerce clause" to justify the Feds interfering.) Frank said: "The notion that the coach of the Little League is involved in interstate commerce -- unless the third baseline is in another state -- strikes me as a hard sell. A dispute involving the coach in a little league will now be federalized... I don't have a problem with that... I do insist, however, that those in the past who have invoked [states' rights understand that] this is an obliteration of Lopez." Those were the high points of the debate, and it went downhill from there. Frank claimed that the Civil War meant that states have no rights. Someone rambled about girl scouts in South Carolina. Someone else spoke passionately about "standards of tortious behavior." Then there was talk about tricyles and hammers. By this time, the audience was falling asleep. I counted 10 people nodding off before I ran out of fingers. A frustrated Hyde tried to broker a deal: "If your staff person can work with your staff person, can you draft replacement language?" Conyers replied. "We're trying to help chairman Hyde. We've got 12 minutes [left]. There's no way in the world we're going to allow hate group hangers-on to be exempted from simple negligence." It worked. By 5:15 pm, after a dozen amendments, the committee passed the "Volunteer Protection Act." As for SAFE -- well, if you're a Congressman faced with the choice of bashing the KKK or tackling crypto policy, what would you do? -By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) and Will Rodger (rodger@worldnet.att.net), who refuses to wear a tie to these events any more.
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The Net's crypto wet-dreams were demolished this afternoon by a Congressional committee's fear of coffee-drenched kids and the Ku Klux Klan.
[Discription of a typical day in congress sniped]
It worked. By 5:15 pm, after a dozen amendments, the committee passed the "Volunteer Protection Act." As for SAFE -- well, if you're a Congressman faced with the choice of bashing the KKK or tackling crypto policy, what would you do?
I personaly think that this is a good thing. :))) Every bill that *is not* passed by congress is just that much more freedom that is saved. If all the bills passed by congress over the past 100yrs. could all be repealed no one would miss them in the least (well no one except the STATEST). SAFE was a bad ideal as any law regulating crypto. I do not need DC's permision to exercise my 1st Admendment rights any more than I need their permision to exercise any of my rights. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: MASOCHIST: Windows SDK programmer with a smile! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 ES000000 iQCVAwUBM3kX0Y9Co1n+aLhhAQFNmgP+NYbfMx5fX506NhGiCQVS/3IGo2/b3IcE mBLEsVnOwggkrz/ebO5r4rnQNhKTzd0tCqxQtGAtR7lRna/cQsFg2wqVHpwX/G70 SWrrlsm1DI0rEFKIi1bSbJ4tkDMpdQQOhtwYRDLUXHH/JuWh0B19wZZ0yYi6WwBy 3BH+23/iba0= =QUcl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 3:32 PM -0800 5/13/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:
A two-hour debate over whether KKK volunteers could be sued for spilling coffee on an 8-year old at a bake sale blew through millions of dollars in billable lobbyist-hours and prevented the House Judiciary Committee from voting on Rep. Bob Goodlatte's (R-VA) SAFE crypto bill today.
Somnolent yet somehow alert, Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich) wasted an hour sparring with the avuncular Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Illinois) over the "Volunteer Protection Act," which insulates people volunteering for nonprofit organizations from civil liability.
But would that apply to the KKK, wondered Conyers? Is the KKK a registered 501(c)(3) organization under the IRS code? What about 501(c)(4) organizations? What if a KKK member decided to build houses for Habitat for Humanity?
Though this was presumably not the thrust of Declan's article, the notion that "some organizations are more insulated than others" (to paraphrase George Orwell) is itself pernicious and revealing about the nature of Washington. If indeed the KKK, or the Knights of Aryanism, or the Panthers of Color are 501(c) entities, which is quite possible, then *if course* they should get whatever status other 501(c) entities get! (The issue of state vs. Federal jurisdiction, and the "Lopez" case, is not what's at stake here.) When either the Federal or state government can use policy to reward certain types of organizations, e.g., the National Organization for Women, but punish other types of organizations, e.g., the Aryan White Peoples Organization, then all is lost. (But all was lost a long time ago.) This is actually just as important a story as whether Netscape and Microsoft will get their special export provisions while Americans face criminal penalties for exercise of basic Constitutional rights. Back to SAFE, though. Does this mean the bill is dead? Can we all breathe a sigh of relief for at least a few more months? --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Nope, SAFE isn't dead. I'll bet you a couple bucks it'll make it out of House Judiciary in about 14 hours. Markup Wednesday at 1:30 pm, followed by a vote on the flag burning amendment. (Oh baby!) Goodlatte came up to me after the subcommittee vote not long ago and told me how he had the votes on Judiciary to get it through, no sweat. But then it goes I believe to International Relations as part of a sequential referral. We'll see what happens there. More opposition, certainly. There's some minor good news. The "crypto in furtherance of a crime" provision likely will be yanked in favor of an eight-part test that's going to be pretty damn tough for prosecutors to prove. I have the text on my Duo and I'm on my NeXT, so I won't include it here but I may send it along later. (BTW, I just installed Mach Ten on my Duo. Finally, a csh prompt on a Mac!) Still, I'm not happy with it. I think the best way to deal with the crypto embargo is to let the courts decide. (I'm particularly a fan of Peter's lawsuit.) That, and write code. -Declan On Tue, 13 May 1997, Tim May wrote:
Back to SAFE, though. Does this mean the bill is dead? Can we all breathe a sigh of relief for at least a few more months?
I appreciate William's comments, but he fails to understand the reality of the situation. Let's forget about the "furtherance" provision for a moment. Congress is not passing a new law in lifting export controls. Rather, it is reducing the sweep of one it already passed that the White House has abused. -Declan On Tue, 13 May 1997, William H. Geiger III wrote:
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, on 05/13/97 at 05:32 PM, Declan McCullagh said: The Net's crypto wet-dreams were demolished this afternoon by a Congressional committee's fear of coffee-drenched kids and the Ku Klux Klan.
[Discription of a typical day in congress sniped]
It worked. By 5:15 pm, after a dozen amendments, the committee passed the "Volunteer Protection Act." As for SAFE -- well, if you're a Congressman faced with the choice of bashing the KKK or tackling crypto policy, what would you do?
I personaly think that this is a good thing. :)))
Every bill that *is not* passed by congress is just that much more freedom that is saved. If all the bills passed by congress over the past 100yrs. could all be repealed no one would miss them in the least (well no one except the STATEST).
SAFE was a bad ideal as any law regulating crypto. I do not need DC's permision to exercise my 1st Admendment rights any more than I need their permision to exercise any of my rights.
- -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0
Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - -----------------------------------------------------------
Tag-O-Matic: MASOCHIST: Windows SDK programmer with a smile!
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I appreciate William's comments, but he fails to understand the reality of the situation. Let's forget about the "furtherance" provision for a moment.
Congress is not passing a new law in lifting export controls. Rather, it is reducing the sweep of one it already passed that the White House has abused.
Well that is another issues that I had not addressed in my post: The Userping of powers relegated to the Legislative Branch by the Excutive Branch via Executive Order. If Congress was intrested in doing the "right thing" then law they should be passing should be quite small stating that the Executive Order is Unconstitutional and by an Act of Congress is Repealed. This is not what they are doing. What they are saying with SAFE is that you have no Constitutional Rights on this issue but because we are nice guys we are going to pass a law making it legal, oh by the way we are going to tack a few riders on here for our own purposes. The whole approach to this issue is wrong. There is *no* valid law restricting the export of crypto. Any attempts to enforce such an invald law should be delt with in the courts. I find that it sets a scary presedent that I *need* congress permission before I can exercise my Constutionally Protected Rights. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info - ----------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain. Windows: Your brain on drugs. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 ES000000 iQCVAwUBM3nwVY9Co1n+aLhhAQGxrgP8DSQtMaG1QH0xDYUHuvSc9KOebxXHTojM 6f21c3cKnc9kNjgO4Tqju3SQTy5mWOtyWRtzdJ+1SsUxhiNOqOnY7eXRIteViP2K wujrKge2UqJeNOhINpwiHYbqqbA/XLXPzuyaNyegzmHSmxJCwSxhNstP25l4BSI2 3GmLswHI2M8= =fIjb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (3)
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Declan McCullagh
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Tim May
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William H. Geiger III