On 3 Oct 96 at 8:58, attila wrote:

AFTER THIS POST, ALL RELIGION MUST GO OFF THE LIST! see banner below

attila, if you wouldn't post propaganda from the Church, then I *might* agree with you. But you can't do that and expect those of us who know better to keep quiet. <snip Dmitri Vulis nonsense>

Now, concerning the completely ignorant, erroneus, and slanderous comment of Dimitri, the facts will follow the usual disclaimer:

*************************************************************** I am neither an authority of nor a representative of "The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints" of which our current living Prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley, is the sole authority to this world.

Love your CYA statement, dude. It's terribly doubtful that Hinckley knows the details of Mountain Meadows, or that he would want to discuss them, if he did.

I do not speak for the Church, nor am I a recognized historian and/or spokesman for the Church. Any opinions stated herein are my viewpoints as discerned from my studies of religion, in particular the historical aspect of the Church, and I accept all responsibilty for same.

Very good. You know, of course, that if you say the wrong thing in public, that your fate will be that of D. Michael Quinn, the excommunicated Mormon historian, who lost his Church membership because he would not stop telling unpleasant truths about the Church's early history. Just so the other c-punks know that speaking truth has consequences. *******************************************************************

If some of the list wish to either ask questions RESPONSIBLY or conduct a shared learning experience of the Mormon religious, community, and work ethic, please drop me a personal note, and I will both answer reasonable questions, and serve as moderator of a list if there is sufficient interest. I think the libertarian faction in particular might be both surprised and *stunned* by many of the actual conditions in Utah versus preconceived views. *******************************************************************

If anyone wants a more jaundiced view of Utah, please drop me a line. I can be a Utah cheerleader if I want (there are many good things about living here) but the fact of the matter is that we live in a Church State. I resent the fact that the dominant religion seems to want to tell *everyone* here how to live their lives.

now, back to our regularly scheduled programming <g>

the following is a compilation of information which is as reasonable a representation of the foul deed as I could assemble.

<snip> I would suggest two books, both by historian Juanita Brooks: "The Mountain Meadows Massacre" "John D. Lee" Before the days of Boyd K. Packer, historians weren't excommunicated. Mrs. Brooks' punishment for writing these two books was to be shunned in her southern Utah community. But they remain *the* sources on Mountain Meadows and the general attitude of the people at the time. I notice that attila didn't mention these sources. Deana (who doesn't really approve of the pap that passes for history in orthodox LDS circles) Deana M. Holmes April 1996 poster child for clueless $cientology litigiousness alt.religion.scientology archivist since 2/95 mirele@xmission.com